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Monday, July 31, 2006

Why is the United Nations always wrong?

As usual, the United Nations is dead wrong. Yes, civilians were killed when an Israeli attempt to take out a missile launcher in Lebanon took out a building in a civilian neighborhood. But...

1) The Israelis warned of an impending strike so non-combatants could flee.
2) Hezbollah consistently fires rockets from civilian neighborhoods in order to use civilians as either a shield or a built-in political football when casualties occur.
3) Hezbollan consistently fires rockets at civilian targets on purpose, but their accuracy is such that the rockets often land in relatively empty fields.

How can the UN condemn the Israelis for this conflict when they are the ones who have been attacked first and are under a continual bombardment of missiles? Why is there no world-wide condemnation of terrorists who force civilians to remain near their emplacements so they may try to hide behind them? Why no condemnation of the continual lobbing of rockets with only civilian targets into Israel? Why?

I heard a commentator on the news say, "Kofi doesn't know his Anan from his elbow!"

Liberal moonbats, surrender-monkee rags like the New York Times, the United Nations, wimpy defeatist countries like France and political opportunists like Iran will all take the side of the terrorists.

Which side are you on?

15 comments:

Jake said...

Hey Radar, I'm going to come to your house tomorrow evening with an automatic weapon and mow down you and yours. And if you're there for me to mow down then it's your own damn fault that you died, and I am not in the wrong. Sure, if I hadn't warned you, then it would be my fault, but since I did warn you, all the responsibility rests with you.

Of course I don't mean that. I would never do such a thing. But do you see how fucking stupid your first point is? That's school-yard ethics. Something most of us outgrow.

radar said...

"As usual, the United Nations is dead wrong. Yes, civilians were killed when an Israeli attempt to take out a missile launcher in Lebanon took out a building in a civilian neighborhood. But...

1) The Israelis warned of an impending strike so non-combatants could flee.
2) Hezbollah consistently fires rockets from civilian neighborhoods in order to use civilians as either a shield or a built-in political football when casualties occur.
3) Hezbollah consistently fires rockets at civilian targets on purpose, but their accuracy is such that the rockets often land in relatively empty fields."

Hey Radar, I'm going to come to your house tomorrow evening with an automatic weapon and mow down you and yours. And if you're there for me to mow down then it's your own damn fault that you died, and I am not in the wrong. Sure, if I hadn't warned you, then it would be my fault, but since I did warn you, all the responsibility rests with you.

Of course I don't mean that. I would never do such a thing. But do you see how fucking stupid your first point is? That's school-yard ethics. Something most of us outgrow.




Jake, you can't be serious! We are talking warfare here. Remember what war is? I try to kill you, you try to kill me? Standard operating procedure in warfare is to attack and destroy the enemy forces within the context of your desired goal (stop the enemy from attacking, conquering territory or whatever).

While the terrorists are firing rockets into Israel without thought for the loss of civilian life, Israel warns civilians to avoid the areas they are attacking in Lebanon and YOU think that Israel is the bad guy??????

...and you call ME stupid????

The US dropped leaflets before we bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki. We wanted the civilian population to be warned before we showed the Japanese the utter futility of continued fighting. Many ignored the warnings and were killed. But how many other countries or groups will warn people before bombing begins? Certainly not Hezbollah or Al Quaeda or Hamas!

Since Hezbollah seeks to hide behind civilians, Israel tries to warn the civilians and give them the opportunity to get out of harm's way. I suppose they are trying to be ethical in warfare, a concept that terrorists could not grasp, certainly. Perhaps being ethical in warfare is "so 20th century" that one can no longer win that way? Perhaps Israel is stupid to give anyone any warning at all. This is war, after all.

So you think Israel should just bomb the rocket launch sites without warning? Just fire away and let the non-combatant chips fall where they may? Will you be on their side then? Explain, please........

Jake said...

Where did I say Israel was the bad guy (as if there can be only one...)?

radar said...

Jake, you suggested the first point was stupid school-yard ethics. If that was not a criticism of Israel's policy, then what did you mean?

Amy Proctor said...

Radar,

have the cops put an internet search on old jake and let them do the rest...

Hezbollah uses women and children as human shields because they are the most effeminate type of men. They fire missiles from residential areas knowing fire will be returned... as they run from the scene like girls.

This is what my husband observed in Iraq. Faggy terrorists would lob mortars from residential areas and flee.. knowing they'd be hit in return fire. They are demonic and don't care that children and families would be compromised.

Jake said...

Amy, you're a moron. I made it clear in my post that I had no intention of carrying out my threat, and that I said it just to illustrate a point. Radar knows that, I know that, and if you had bothered to read my post all the way, you'd know that.

To reiterate: I have no intention of doing any harm to radar or anyone he knows or is related to.

Radar: "He started it" and "I warned you!" are grade school ethics. Israel is wrong. Hezbollah is also wrong. We can argue with each other about who's more wrong, but the fact is that when you are being harmed, your goal should be to prevent that harm, not just hurt the person who hurt you. If Israel's actions are not succeeding in keeping them safe then they are wrong. And if they are not only not successful, but also killing innocent civilians then they are also wrong.

OF COURSE Hezbollah's actions are wrong. That goes without saying (or maybe not). The only relevant question is, are israel's actions productive in reducing the total harm?

Killing doesn't all of a sudden become okay because there's a war on. A war is just a concentration of personal tragedy.

loboinok said...

radar,

The Qana incident is more than likely, propaganda.

(Graphic)

Free Republic

EU Referendum

Its amazing that the world's media is right there filming and photographing all this, and very few people will know what is really going on.

highboy said...

Jake, if you really care about dead innocents, you can

a.) fight against abortion
b.) support Israel's efforts to protect their own children
c.) support the efforts in Iraq,
d.) all of the above.

But since you do none of these things, its hard to take you seriously. I guess if Israel just sat by and let terror cells lauch rocket after rocket at their civillians you'd feel better. Israel has children too.

" Where did I say Israel was the bad guy (as if there can be only one...)?"

That's the implication you present.

"But do you see how fucking stupid your first point is? That's school-yard ethics. Something most of us outgrow."

Maybe in Canada, but in America, and apparently Israel, if you are attacked, you attack back to protect your people.

Jake said...

if you are attacked, you attack back to protect your people.

It's those last four words that are key. What if attacking back *doesn't* protect your own people? What if it just causes more death, thereby angering those who attacked you and making them more likely to attack you again? Do you attack them anyway so as to avoid appearing weak?

As far as your list goes, it carries a very telling presupposition, so I ask you: Why are American and Israeli civilians more valuable than Lebanese or Iraqi civilians?

radar said...

Jake, I never believed you were actually threatening me...now back to our movie!

Jake, Israel is (in Lebanon) trying to kill the terrorists and destroy their rocket launchers and rockets. Obviously killing the guys who attack you keeps them from attacking you again. Obviously if you wipe out the rocket launchers and rockets you won't have them raining down upon you anymore. So Israel is not just getting revenge, they are making their people safer. This is so very obvious that I am puzzled that you cannot readily see this for yourself.

Middle_America said...

I found the sidebar conversation just as interesting as the blog article itself.

It boils down to this, in my opinion.

There has been a change in Israel regarding their defensiveness. Few can argue against the fact if Israel military went toe to toe with any of those other countries, they would not lose.

However, in the past, they kept taking the suicide bombings, the snipers, ect.

We are seeing a more increase in terrorist (islamic facist) attacking all over the world.

This last attack from Hezbollah on Israel was the last straw. For the first time, Israel is going all out in removing Hezbollah. Yes, it's obvious they are not purposely hitting lebonese in the process. It is also just as obvious Lebanon cannot control Hezbollah and are being used as shields for them.

Israel is trying to protect the civilians, Hezbollah is using and attacking the civilians.

chaos_engineer said...

I've gotta side with Radar this time.

The history is that Syria just pulled out of Lebanon a couple months ago, which put Hezbollah is a weakened situation politically. So they're pulling a desperation move. "Look at us! We're not irrelevant! See, we're attacking Israel for you!"

Israel's best strategy is to counterattack, which will hopefully convince the Lebanese people that Hezbollah isn't doing them any favors.

Of course the key is to take out Hezbollah's infrastructure while minimizing civilian casualties. I think Israel's probably doing about the best it can, but it's hard to sort out the facts from the propaganda.

(I just hope they can pull this off on their own, because there's not a lot the US can do to help. We got tricked into getting bogged down in Iraq, and now we've lost Somalia, we can't do anything effective with Iran, and Afghanistan is hanging by a thread. I just hope we don't lose Israel, too...)

highboy said...

"What if it just causes more death, thereby angering those who attacked you and making them more likely to attack you again? Do you attack them anyway so as to avoid appearing weak?"

That's a big "what if", implies that the country attacked should let their enemies bomb them without retaliation, for fear of more bombings. Ridiculous.

sschultz467 said...

Kimbal, I think the initial reports also stated that when the people attempted to flee, Hezbollah turned them back to remain a buffer for the impending ground attack. This should also send a message to other countries that want to allow terrorist groups to set up camp and conduct business that it won't be without consequence, you don't like to see innocent people get caught up in this and Hezbollah is now to powerful for the Lebanese to force out. But others have to realize what is going to happen if you let these guys set up shop in your backyard and if they value their own citizens they won't let it happen

oriolebird38 said...

normally, I feel that killing only begets more killing and solves little. I oppose abortion, capital punishment, ham sandwiches, and other things that produce needless death. (yes, Mama Cass' death is a source of humor for me.)

I find it hard to fault the Israeli policy here. I've not always been a big fan of what they've done in the past, their policies etc. But given the circumstances at the moment, they don't really have lots of choices. It's unfortunate for the Lebanese citizens, but this is what people do in war. Sherman mercilessly burned a hole in Georgia. The Russians killed countless Germans retreating during WW2. But that's war. And if Lebanon and their people do not enjoy war, they shouldn't sponsor an organization that randomly kidnapps Israeli soldiers.