Search This Blog

Wednesday, September 13, 2006

God, or Chance?

The Universe came from somewhere. Many scientists have postulated various forms of the Big Bang theory and, at the heart of that speculation is the question of how such a thing occurred? It has been determined that such an explosion was unlikely to the point of impossibility to have happened by chance, but rather it would have to have been controlled. But others maintain that there is no Creator to design and control a Big Bang and, no matter how unlikely, the Universe came about by chance.

Creationists believe that God created the Universe.

Either God did it, or chance did it. The Universe did not create itself.

~~~~~~~

Where did life come from? All efforts to recreate a scenario in which life arises from non-life have been failures. No scientists have managed to postulate a cohesive formula or identify a clear path from non-life to life. They say that it happened, somehow, because we are here. By some chance occurrence, life came about.

Creationists believe that God created life and there was no life before He created it.

Either God did it, or chance did it. Life did not create itself.

~~~~~~~

Assuming some primitive form of life existed, how did all the thousands of kinds of life get here? Evolutionists believe that mutations occurring by chance were selected by natural selection, millions upon millions for each living creature existing now, until all life had evolved from one primitive life form. This is why many fossils found now are of animals that do not now exist, because they were evolving into what we find now.

Creationists believe that God created all life fully formed and the over the course of time and a biosphere changed by the Flood and the aftermath of the Flood, many of the kinds of life once found on earth have become extinct. But there is no new form of life that wasn't created at the beginning by God.

Either God did it, or chance did it. Creatures do not create themselves and natural selection is an observed phenomenon that tends to preserve the gene pool rather than change it.

~~~~~~~~

Say what you will, at the heart of all conversations between the two sides is the argument between God and chance as the maker of the Universe and all that is within it.

17 comments:

cranky old fart said...

Radar,

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.

You listen to nothing and absorb nothing.

Goddidit. The giant fingernail did it. The giant spaghetti monster did it. Zul did it.

You can postulate any being you want. Each is as useful/useless as any other. There is no point but to comfort yourself.

Supernatural explanations explain nothing and lead to nothing. Never have, never will.

highboy said...

"Supernatural explanations explain nothing and lead to nothing. Never have, never will."

Seeing as how science has yet to come up with a plausible theory as to how the universe created itself, it ranks right up there.

xiangtao said...

1000 years ago science had yet to come up with a plausible theory for how the sun moved across the sky without the help of the gods. But science got there eventually didn't it? That is the difference between science and goddidit.

Science is not content to say "We don't understand it so let's make something up to eliminate our ignorance." Science continues to search for the answers and is never content until something is fully understood. That is why science has progressed, and religion has been stuck at "goddidit" for thousands of years.

xiangtao said...

"It has been determined that such an explosion was unlikely to the point of impossibility to have happened by chance, but rather it would have to have been controlled."

Just out of curiosity, who determined this and how did they come to that conclusion?

radar said...

""It has been determined that such an explosion was unlikely to the point of impossibility to have happened by chance, but rather it would have to have been controlled."

Just out of curiosity, who determined this and how did they come to that conclusion?"

~~~~~~~

Dr. Hugh Ross is the first scientist who brought this point into the public arena after having presented his findings to scientists first. My understanding that among "Big Bangers" most agree that if it happened, it was not a random occurrence based on what we know today.

radar said...

"1000 years ago science had yet to come up with a plausible theory for how the sun moved across the sky without the help of the gods. But science got there eventually didn't it? That is the difference between science and goddidit.

Science is not content to say "We don't understand it so let's make something up to eliminate our ignorance." Science continues to search for the answers and is never content until something is fully understood. That is why science has progressed, and religion has been stuck at "goddidit" for thousands of years."

I feel another post coming on. Are you unable to even see my point? chancedidit is no different than godditit. Neither is an explanation by itself. How things operate is where science dwells, whether things originated by God or chance.

No, Christians do not spend lifetimes trying to prove the existence of God. But atheists will spend lifetimes trying to find ways to disprove God. It's your life, spend it as you wish...

highboy said...

"No, Christians do not spend lifetimes trying to prove the existence of God. But atheists will spend lifetimes trying to find ways to disprove God."

Exactly.

xiangtao said...

Not exactly.

I can't speak for all atheists but for me at least, you have it backwards. I did not decide to not believe in god and then go looking for evidence to prove that conclusion. I became an atheist because the more I learned about life, the universe, and everything, the more I came to realize that it does not need god to explain it.

I can see why you would be confused though. It is a staple of the creationist playbook to look for evidence to support their pre conceived ideas, and it seems to me that creationists are (for the most part) incapable of realising that not everyone thinks this way.

highboy said...

"I became an atheist because the more I learned about life, the universe, and everything, the more I came to realize that it does not need god to explain it."

So because you think the universe doesn't need God to explain it, you wrongly conclude He doesn't exist? Beautiful logic.

cranky old fart said...

Highboy,

"Seeing as how science has yet to come up with a plausible theory as to how the universe created itself, it ranks right up there".

Again, side stepping the point, which was, of course, that supernatural explanations, as a practical matter explain nothing and lead to nothing. Never have, never will.

cranky old fart said...

Highboy,

"So because you think the universe doesn't need God to explain it, you wrongly conclude He doesn't exist? Beautiful logic".

You are correct. Such reasoning would not be a logical basis for definitively concluding God, the Zeus, FSM, or any other unproveable thing exists.

Bravo.

The real point, again, is that such things are irrelevant in explaining the real world.

I am an atheist because I choose not to believe in the irrelevant and unproveable. You choose, by faith, to believe otherwise. The end.

highboy said...

"I am an atheist because I choose not to believe in the irrelevant and unproveable."

Except that you believe God doesn't exist, which is equally unprovable.

cranky old fart said...

Highboy,

"Except that you believe God doesn't exist, which is equally unprovable."

I never claimed I could prove the negative. So what's your point?

My point, which you continually side step, is that supernatural explanations, as a practical matter, explain nothing and lead to nothing. Never have, never will.

cranky old fart said...

Radar,

"chancedidit is no different than godditit."

I'll grant you that, if you'll grant that "we don't know" is very different from goddidit.

highboy said...

"I never claimed I could prove the negative. So what's your point"

But first you said

"I am an atheist because I choose not to believe in the irrelevant and unproveable"

Believing that God does not exist is unprovable, yet you believe in it. I'm playing rather cute word salad with you.

cranky old fart said...

Highboy,

"I'm playing rather cute word salad with you."

Other than being tedious, is there a point to that?

highboy said...

"Other than being tedious, is there a point to that?"

No. Lighten up.