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Tuesday, June 11, 2013

Child Abuse is at the heart of the issue of both "Gay Marriage" and the pro-homosexual school propaganda! There is no doubt...

If you did not read this post, I hope you go read it and then check this out.  It is named below:

Who is doing the hating here? Homosexuals and their campaign of hate and violence? Time to stand up before you are run over!!!


After this post I want to go back to design and put this behind us.   This post is the response to a lot of uninformed comments.  I hope this one is sufficient.

Some commenters did not read the entire article or watch the video, which was painfully obvious from the commenters when they made uninformed comments or labeled the post and "anti-homosexual rant" whereas it is not one at all.  A rant against promiscuity, child sex and molestation, grade school kids being urged to explore sex with each other and older kids and even adults, etc.

I have yet to hear from a homosexual (identified, anyway) who has any defense for the agenda of these radical groups.   Nor have I EVER heard a good reason for society to destroy marriage and make it into something different.

WHAT CAN AN ORDINARY AMERICAN DO TO SAVE THE KIDS AND SOCIETY?

VOTE, write letters to Congressmen and also to local school boards.

DISCOVER what kinds of such curriculum is taught in your school district.

UNDERSTAND that most homosexuals are not radicals and without the radical groups neither the grotesque curriculum nor the attack on marriage would be taking place.   Most homosexuals I have known did not want to make waves, they simply wanted to live they way they preferred.

OPPOSE any and all so-called "hate crimes" or "hate speech" or "bullying" measures taken in schools, in laws or anywhere.   We do not need the Though Police involved in seeking to read our minds and no one can know how much, if any, hatred is involved in the minds of people, but actions do speak louder than words and the radical homosexuals are sure doing the vast majority of the bullying and hating!

PROTECT your children.   If your school is teaching your children to have sex, change schools after you try to get them to stop it immediately.  Avoid organizations that allow homosexuals to be in poser over your kids when they go summer camping.

Planned on getting back to design but the comments thread from above means I need to put an exclamation point on the issues:

1) It is the radical homosexual groups that have exerted amazing power with the media and the Obama Administration and academics, when the number of actual homosexuals is about 2-3% of the population.

2) It is the stupidity of the United Nations and the USA and many other Western countries who promote promiscuity, homosexual activities, prostitution, pedophilia and in fact sex outside of marriage and then expect to reduce HIV/AIDS?!

3) The average American does not realize what grade schoolers are being taught and how radical the agenda of groups like GLSEN and NAMBLA really is...and how disastrous to people.

4) When children are molested, it traumatizes them and often has an influence on the rest of their lives - if they don't commit suicide - and often they fall into drug abuse, co-dependent relationships or do onto others as it was done to them.

"Homosexual Pedophiles are Vastly Over-represented in Child Sex Abuse Cases


Homosexual pedophiles sexually molest children at a far greater rate compared to the percentage of homosexuals in the general population. A study in the Journal of Sex Research found, as we have noted above, that "approximately one-third of [child sex offenders] had victimized boys and two-thirds had victimized girls." The authors then make a prescient observation: "Interestingly, this ratio differs substantially from the ratio of gynephiles (men who erotically prefer physically mature females) to androphiles (men who erotically prefer physically mature males), which is at least 20 to 1."[17]
In other words, although heterosexuals outnumber homosexuals by a ratio of at least 20 to 1, homosexual pedophiles commit about one-third of the total number of child sex offenses."  - FRC article below my introduction...


Those adults who want to have a homosexual lifestyle have that right.  Those couples who want a civil union have that right.  The laws of the USA were adjusted to allow homosexuals to have legal unions and practice homosexuality.   It would not surprise me to discover that the average homosexual is quite fine with that situation.  

But radical groups who have a LOT of funding and a LOT of support in our very anti-Christian Federal government are seeking to destroy marriage and promote promiscuity and child sex.   Thus, the further destruction of the family unit.  While it is the male on male sex that is the biggest problem in terms of both STDs and child abuse, the general theme of promoting child sexual activities is harmful in any case!

As I did write in the comments thread:

"John Chapter 8 begins thusly:

 "...but Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. Early in the morning he came again to the temple. All the people came to him, and he sat down and taught them. The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in adultery, and placing her in the midst they said to him, 

“Teacher, this woman has been caught in the act of adultery. Now in the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. So what do you say?” 

 This they said to test him, that they might have some charge to bring against him. Jesus bent down and wrote with his finger on the ground. And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, 

 “Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.” 

And once more he bent down and wrote on the ground. But when they heard it, they went away one by one, beginning with the older ones, and Jesus was left alone with the woman standing before him. Jesus stood up and said to her, 

“Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?” She said, “No one, Lord.” 

And Jesus said, “Neither do I condemn you; go, and from now on sin no more.” 

Here is my attitude towards anyone who has a sin problem, habit, addiction, or worse than that, doesn't realize they have a sin problem. Jesus forgives sinners. Any sinners. He will, in the form of His Living Spirit, live within anyone who receives forgiveness and salvation. At that point, He will work from the inside out to help you sin less and do right more often. He will NEVER leave you or forsake you even if you cannot break a habit or stop habitually sinning.

I am not any better or worse than a homosexual or a librarian who doesn't always check out books she takes home or a guy who carries a few things home from work or the people down the street who don't mow their yard much and let the weeds grow or a bank robber or a President who defies the Constitution. We are all humans, we are all temporal creatures and only God's love and the sacrifice of Christ can save us from ourselves. If you are a homosexual and think I am hating on you, you are wrong. I hate the radical homosexual agenda being promoted by the NAMBLAs of the world, but I do not hate you. I hope you find forgiveness and peace and joy and love.

Why did Jesus write on the ground? Well, they brought the woman but not the man, and according to the Law, both adulterers were to be presented for judgment. Jesus knew they were even then trying to trap Him. But more to the point, the intent of Christ was mercy rather than judgment. That is still true today."

Homosexuality is NOT good for society and especially NOT good for children!   


Radical Homosexual groups are promoting child sex, homosexual sex for children and teens, promiscuity and even pedophilia    The nuclear family is at the heart of our culture.  Lyndon Baines Johnson's "Great Society" legislation that in effect paid women to remain unmarried and have children out of wedlock has been destructive to the inner-city poor in particular and a huge percentage of "minority" people in those cities.

Homosexuality and Child Sexual Abuse







Scandals involving the sexual abuse of under-age boys by homosexual priests have rocked the Roman Catholic Church. At the same time, defenders of homosexuality argue that youth organizations such as the Boy Scouts should be forced to include homosexuals among their adult leaders. Similarly, the Gay Lesbian and Straight Education Network (GLSEN), a homosexual activist organization that targets schools, has spearheaded the formation of "Gay-Straight Alliances" among students. GLSEN encourages homosexual teachers--even in the youngest grades--to be open about their sexuality, as a way of providing role models to "gay" students. In addition, laws or policies banning employment discrimination based on "sexual orientation" usually make no exception for those who work with children or youth.
Many parents have become concerned that children may be molested, encouraged to become sexually active, or even "recruited" into adopting a homosexual identity and lifestyle. Gay activists dismiss such concerns--in part, by strenuously insisting that there is no connection between homosexuality and the sexual abuse of children.
However, despite efforts by homosexual activists to distance the gay lifestyle from pedophilia, there remains a disturbing connection between the two. This is because, by definition, male homosexuals are sexually attracted to other males. While many homosexuals may not seek young sexual partners, the evidence indicates that disproportionate numbers of gay men seek adolescent males or boys as sexual partners. In this paper we will consider the following evidence linking homosexuality to pedophilia:
Pedophiles are invariably males: Almost all sex crimes against children are committed by men.
Significant numbers of victims are males: Up to one-third of all sex crimes against children are committed against boys (as opposed to girls).
The 10 percent fallacy: Studies indicate that, contrary to the inaccurate but widely accepted claims of sex researcher Alfred Kinsey, homosexuals comprise between 1 to 3 percent of the population.
Homosexuals are overrepresented in child sex offenses: Individuals from the 1 to 3 percent of the population that is sexually attracted to the same sex are committing up to one-third of the sex crimes against children.
Some homosexual activists defend the historic connection between homosexuality and pedophilia: Such activists consider the defense of "boy-lovers" to be a legitimate gay rights issue.
Pedophile themes abound in homosexual literary culture: Gay fiction as well as serious academic treatises promote "intergenerational intimacy."
MALE HOMOSEXUALS COMMIT A DISPROPORTIONATE NUMBER OF CHILD SEX ABUSE CASES


Homosexual apologists admit that some homosexuals sexually molest children, but they deny that homosexuals are more likely to commit such offenses. After all, they argue, the majority of child molestation cases are heterosexual in nature. While this is correct in terms of absolute numbers, this argument ignores the fact that homosexuals comprise only a very small percentage of the population.
The evidence indicates that homosexual men molest boys at rates grossly disproportionate to the rates at which heterosexual men molest girls. To demonstrate this it is necessary to connect several statistics related to the problem of child sex abuse: 1) men are almost always the perpetrator; 2) up to one-third or more of child sex abuse cases are committed against boys; 3) less than three percent of the population are homosexuals. Thus, a tiny percentage of the population (homosexual men), commit one-third or more of the cases of child sexual molestation.
Men Account for Almost All Sexual Abuse of Children Cases


An essay on adult sex offenders in the book Sexual Offending Against Children reported:"It is widely believed that the vast majority of sexual abuse is perpetrated by males and that female sex offenders only account for a tiny proportion of offences. Indeed, with 3,000 adult male sex offenders in prison in England and Wales at any one time, the corresponding figure for female sex offenders is 12!"[1]
Kee MacFarlane, et al., writing in Sexual Abuse of Young Children: Evaluation and Treatment report: "The large majority of sexual perpetrators appear to be males (Herman and Hirschman, 1981; Lindholm and Willey, 1983)."[2]
A report by the American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children states: "In both clinical and non-clinical samples, the vast majority of offenders are male."[3]
A study in the Journal of Sex Research states that "pedophilia does not exist, or is extremely rare, in women."[4]
A Significant Percentage of Child Sexual Abuse Victims are Boys


According to the Journal of Child Psychiatry: "It was commonly believed fifteen years ago that girls were abused in excess of boys in a ratio of about 9 to 1, but contemporary studies now indicate that the ratio of girls to boys abused has narrowed remarkably. . . . The majority of community studies suggest a . . . ratio . . . in the order of 2 to 4 girls to 1 boy."[5] Another study found that "some authors now believe that boys may be sexually abused as commonly as girls (Groth, 1978; O'Brien, 1980)."[6]
A study of 457 male sex offenders against children in Journal of Sex and Marital Therapy found that "approximately one-third of these sexual offenders directed their sexual activity against males."[7]
Sexual Abuse of Boys is Underreported


The actual percentage of child sexual abuse victims who are boys very likely exceeds the above estimates. Many researchers echo the view of the Journal of Child Psychiatry study, which refers to the "under-reporting of the incidence and prevalence of sexual abuse in boys."[8]
Dr. Robert Johnson, in Medical Aspects of Human Sexuality, reports: "The vast majority of cases of male sexual molestation is not reported. As a result, these young men keep both the incidents and their feelings to themselves."[9]
The Department of Justice report on child sexual exploitation explains why the percentage of boy victims is underestimated: "Adolescent boy victims are highly likely to deny certain types of sexual activity. . . . They are embarrassed and ashamed of their behavior and rightfully believe that society will not understand their victimization. . . . No matter what the investigator does, most adolescent boys will deny they were victims."[10]
The Journal of Child Psychiatry adds: "Boys are usually encultured into an ethos where self-reliance, independence and sexual prowess are valued, while showing hurt or homosexuality are denigrated. . . . This may lead to powerful repression or deletion of the experience, with failure to report."[11]
Homosexuals Comprise Less than 3 Percent of the Population


Relying upon three large data sets: the General Social Survey, the National Health and Social Life Survey, and the U.S. census, a recent study in Demography estimates the number of exclusive male homosexuals in the general population at 2.5 percent, and the number of exclusive lesbians at 1.4 percent.[12]
A study of the sexual behavior of men in the United States based on the National Survey of Men (a nationally representative sample comprised of 3,321 men aged twenty to thirty-nine, published in Family Planning Perspectives), found that "2 percent of sexually active men aged twenty to thirty-nine . . . had had any same-gender sexual activity during the last ten years. Approximately 1 percent of the men (1.3 percent among whites and 0.2 percent among blacks) reported having had exclusively homosexual activity.[13]
J. Gordon Muir, writing in The Wall Street Journal, discusses a number of studies that have found that homosexuals comprise between 1 to 3 percent of the population.[14]
In a survey of studies on homosexuals in different populations, the Archives of Sexual Behavior reported a random sample of Hawaii State residents interviewed by telephone. The study found "just about 3 percent of males and 1.2 percent of females as having engaged in same-sex or bisexual activity."[15] However, this relatively higher number is attributed to the fact that the study was not limited to exclusive homosexuals, but included all those who at some time in their lives engaged in same-sex activities.[16]
Homosexual Pedophiles are Vastly Over-represented in Child Sex Abuse Cases


Homosexual pedophiles sexually molest children at a far greater rate compared to the percentage of homosexuals in the general population. A study in the Journal of Sex Research found, as we have noted above, that "approximately one-third of [child sex offenders] had victimized boys and two-thirds had victimized girls." The authors then make a prescient observation: "Interestingly, this ratio differs substantially from the ratio of gynephiles (men who erotically prefer physically mature females) to androphiles (men who erotically prefer physically mature males), which is at least 20 to 1."[17]
In other words, although heterosexuals outnumber homosexuals by a ratio of at least 20 to 1, homosexual pedophiles commit about one-third of the total number of child sex offenses.
Similarly, the Archives of Sexual Behavior also noted that homosexual pedophiles are significantly overrepresented in child sex offence cases:
The best epidemiological evidence indicates that only 2 to 4 percent of men attracted to adults prefer men (ACSF Investigators, 1992; Billy et al.,1993; Fay et al.,1989; Johnson et al.,1992); in contrast, around 25 to 40 percent of men attracted to children prefer boys (Blanchard et al.,1999; Gebhard et al.,1965; Mohr et al.,1964).Thus, the rate of homosexual attraction is 6 to 20 times higher among pedophiles."[18]
The stark imbalance between homosexual and heterosexual child molestations was confirmed in the Archives of Sexual Behavior study itself, which divided 260 pedophile participants into three groups: "152 heterosexual pedophiles (men with offenses or self-reported attractions involving girls only), 43 bisexual pedophiles (boys and girls), and 65 homosexual pedophiles (boys only)."[19] In other words, 25 percent of the offenders were homosexual pedophiles--or 41 percent if those who molest girls as well as boys are included.
Other studies report an unusually high percentage of child molestations by homosexual pedophiles:
A study on pedophilia in the Psychiatric Journal of the University of Ottawa reported: "According to the literature, findings of a two-to-one ratio of heterosexual to homosexual pedophiles have been documented."[20]
The Journal of Sex Research reports a study that included "199 offenders against female children and 96 offenders against male children. . . . This would indicate a proportional prevalence of 32 percent of homosexual offenders against children."[21]
A study of male child sex offenders in Child Abuse and Neglect found that fourteen percent targeted only males, and a further 28 percent chose males as well as females as victims, thus indicating that 42 percent of male pedophiles engaged in homosexual molestation.[22]
ARE MEN WHO MOLEST BOYS REALLY 'HOMOSEXUALS'? Gay Apologists Insist on a Simplistic Stereotype of Pedophilia


Central to the attempts to separate homosexuality from pedophilia is the claim that pedophiles cannot, by definition, be considered homosexuals. Relying upon a questionable methodology[23], the gay advocacy organization Human Rights Campaign published a "Fact Sheet on Sexual Orientation and Child Abuse," that states: "A sexual abuser who molests a child of the same sex is usually not considered homosexual."[24]
The basis for this claim is the view that pedophiles who molest boys cannot be considered homosexual if that individual has at any time been married or sexually involved with women.
'Homosexual Pedophiles': A Clinical Term


The fact is, however, that the terms "homosexual" and "pedophile" are not mutually exclusive: they describe two intersecting types of sexual attraction. Webster's Dictionary defines "homosexual" as someone who is sexually attracted to persons of the same sex. "Pedophile" is defined as "an adult who is sexually attracted to young children." The former definition refers to the gender of the desired sexual object, while the latter refers to the age of the desired sexual object.
A male "homosexual pedophile," then, is defined as someone who is generally (but not exclusively, see below) sexually attracted to boys, while a female "homosexual pedophile" is sexually attracted to girls.[25]
The term "homosexual pedophile" was first used in the early 20th century by the Viennese psychiatrist Dr. Richard von Krafft -Ebing, who pioneered the systematic study of sexual deviance. Krafft-Ebing described pedophiles as heterosexually, homosexually or bisexually oriented.[26] This division has been accepted by pedophiles themselves,[27] and is well attested in the literature:
A study of child molesters in Behavior Research and Therapy found that "a homosexual and a heterosexual subgroup can be delineated among these offenders."[28]
The Journal of Sex and Marital Therapy published a study on the same topic, which discussed "the proportional prevalences of heterosexual and homosexual pedophilia."[29] The study commented on a study that found that "the percentage of the homosexual pedophiles would be 45.8." Even adjusted downward for exhibitionists, "this would still indicate a much higher percentage (34 percent) of homosexuals among pedophiles than among men who prefer physically mature partners."[30]
In a review of studies on pedophilia, the Psychiatric Journal of the University of Ottawa concluded: "The findings of previous studies report that pedophiles can be divided into heterosexual and homosexual pedophiles according to their erotic preference. . . . This was confirmed in this recent study."[31] The article classified homosexual pedophilia into three types: the socially inadequate homosexual pedophile, the intrusive homosexual pedophile, and the undifferentiated homosexual pedophile.[32]
A study of pedophiles in Behavior Research and Therapy concluded: "The second, and perhaps the most important observation we made, is that a homosexual and a heterosexual subgroup can be delineated among these offenders. . . . Categorizing them in this way revealed important differences in the pattern of their sexual preferences."[33]
The International Journal of Offender Therapy and Comparative Criminology refers to homosexual pedophiles as a "distinct group." The victims of homosexual pedophiles "were more likely to be strangers, that they were more likely to have engaged in paraphiliac behavior separate from that involved in the offence, and that they were more likely to have past convictions for sexual offences. . . . Other studies [showed a] greater risk of reoffending than those who had offended against girls" and that the "recidivism rate for male-victim offenders is approximately twice that for female-victim offenders."[34]
Homosexuals and Homosexual Pedophiles Engage in a Wide Variety of Sexual Behavior that Belies Simplistic Categories


Despite this evidence, in their efforts to divorce homosexuality from pedophilia, homosexual apologists insist on a rigid, narrow definition of the terms "homosexual" and "pedophile" that permits no overlap of the terms. They deny that homosexuals are attracted in inordinate numbers to boys. They also claim that pedophiles cannot be classified as "homosexual" if at any time they have had sexual relations with women.
However, such a narrow definition does not do justice to the complex nature of pedophilia. Researchers have long been aware that pedophiles exhibit a wide variety of sexual attractions and behavior--often to draw attention away from their primary lust for boys. A study on sex offenders in the International Journal of Offender Therapy and Comparative Criminology notes that "the reason child sexual abusers are successful at remaining undetected is because they do not fit a stereotype."[35]
The data indicates that both homosexuality and pedophilia are intersecting categories that admit to a wide variety of sexual behavior:
Homosexual Males are Sexually Attracted to Underage Boys


A study in Archives of Sexual Behavior found that homosexual men are attracted to young males. The study compared the sexual age preferences of heterosexual men, heterosexual women, homosexual men, and lesbians. The results showed that, in marked contrast to the other three categories, "all but 9 of the 48 homosexual men preferred the youngest two male age categories," which included males as young as age fifteen.[36]
In The Gay Report, by homosexual researchers Karla Jay and Allen Young, the authors report data showing that 73 percent of homosexuals surveyed had at some time had sex with boys sixteen to nineteen years of age or younger."[37]
Conversely, Homosexual Pedophiles are Often Attracted to Adult Males


A study of sex offenders against male children in Behavior Research and Therapy found that male homosexual pedophiles are sexually attracted to "males of all ages." Compared to non-offenders, the offenders showed "greater arousal" to slides of nude males as old as twenty-four: "As a group, the child molesters responsed [sp] with moderate sexual arousal . . . to the nude males of all ages."[38]
A study of Canadians imprisoned for pedophilia in the Journal of Interpersonal Violence noted that some of the adult male offenders engaged in homosexual acts with adult males.[39]
Many pedophiles, in fact, consider themselves to be homosexual. A study of 229 convicted child molesters inArchives of Sexual Behavior found that "eighty-six percent of offenders against males described themselves as homosexual or bisexual."[40]
Fr. John Harvey, founder and director of Courage, a support ministry for Catholics who struggle with same-sex attraction, explains that "the pedophile differs from the ordinary homosexual in that the former admires boyishness in the object of his affections, while the latter admires manliness."[41] However, the categories are not completely separate:
While granting that the majority of homosexuals are not aroused by young boys, the distinction between homosexuality and homosexual pedophilia is not quite absolute. In some cases the interest oscillates between young adolescents and adults, in others between boys and adolescents; in exceptional cases a man may be interested in boys at one time and adults at another.[42]
Many Pedophiles are Attracted to Women, Marry, and Have Children


Gay activists insist that pedophilia has nothing to do with homosexuality because pedophiles are only sexually interested in children, whereas homosexuals only have sexual relations with adults. We have already seen that this stereotypical view is not correct with regard to homosexuals. There is also abundant evidence demonstrating that, while primarily interested in children, pedophiles nevertheless exhibit a wide variety of sexual behaviors, including relationships with women:
A study in Child Abuse and Neglect found that 48 percent of the offenders either were married or had been married at some time.[43]
The Journal of Interpersonal Violence studied the sexual preferences of male pedophiles who sexually abused children. When they compared the sexual response of the pedophiles with the control group, they found, unexpectedly: "Surprisingly, the two groups did not differ in their response to the nude female stimuli."[44]
A study in the Psychiatric Journal of the University of Ottawa reported that "most of the middle-aged pedophiles have had significant adult sexual activity."[45] Fifty-eight percent of the pedophiles in one study had at least one child, while other research indicated that "more than two-thirds of the married pedophiles in their sample had children, with an average of two to three children per subject."[46]
A report by the Department of Justice addressed the devious stratagems of pedophiles, who will go to great lengths to conceal their true desires: "Preferential sex offenders may be 'pillars of the community' and are often described as 'nice guys.' They almost always have a means of access to children (for example, through marriage, neighborhood, or occupation.)"[47]
Thus, the evidence shows that homosexual pedophiles cannot be narrowly defined as individuals who are solely attracted to underage boys. In fact there is considerable overlap between homosexuality and pedophilia.
PEDOPHILIA IN GAY CULTURE The Historical Connection between Pedophilia and the Gay Rights Movement


David Thorstad is a homosexual activist and historian of the gay rights movement.[48] He is a former president of New York's Gay Activists Alliance (GAA), a prototype activist group founded in December 1969. The GAA at its inception opposed age of consent laws, which prohibited adults from having sex with children.[49] Thorstad is also a pedophile and founding member of the North American Man Boy Love Association (NAMBLA).
Thorstad argues that there is a natural and undeniable connection between homosexuality and pedophilia. He expresses bitterness that the gay rights movement has, in his view, abandoned pedophilia. Thorstad writes: "Boy-lovers were involved in the gay movement from the beginning, and their presence was tolerated. Gay youth groups encouraged adults to attend their dances. . . . There was a mood of tolerance, even joy at discovering the myriad of lifestyles within the gay and lesbian subculture."[50]
The inaugural issue of the Gay Community News in 1979 published a "Statement to the Gay Liberation Movement on the Issue of Man/Boy Love," which challenged the movement to return to a vision of sexual liberation. It argued that "the ultimate goal of gay liberation is the achievement of sexual freedom for all--not just equal rights for 'lesbian and gay men,' but also freedom of sexual expression for young people and children."
In the early years there was some reluctance to accept pedophilia, primarily among feminist and lesbian activist groups. In March 1979 the Lesbian Feminist Liberation (LFL) accusing "so-called Man/Boy Lovers" of "attempting to legitimize sex between children and adults. . . . Feminists easily recognize this as the latest attempt to make palatable the sexual exploitation of children." The coalition went on record as opposing "the sexual abuse of children by heterosexual or homosexual persons."[51]
Despite this opposition, Thorstad claims that by 1985 homosexual pedophiles had won acceptance within the gay movement. He cites Jim Kepner, then curator of the International Gay and Lesbian Archives in Los Angeles: "A point I've been trying to make is that if we reject the boylovers in our midst today we'd better stop waving the banner of the Ancient Greeks, of Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, Oscar Wilde, Walt Whitman, Horatio Alger, and Shakespeare. We'd better stop claiming them as part of our heritage unless we are broadening our concept of what it means to be gay today."[52]
In 1985 NAMBLA was admitted as a member in New York's council of Lesbian and Gay Organizations as well as the International Gay Association--now the International Lesbian and Gay Association (ILGA). In the mid-1990's ILGA's association with NAMBLA and other pedophile groups cost the organization it's status as a Non-Governmental Organization in the United Nations.
ILGA's renewed attempt to gain admittance to the UN was rejected again in April 2002 because the organization "did not document that it had purged pedophile groups such as [NAMBLA]." The Washington Times reports that Ishtiag H. Anrabi, Pakistani delegate to the UN Economic and Social Council, expressed concern that ILGA was continuing to be secretive about ties with pedophile groups: "For more than a year, the ILGA has refused to provide documentation or allow review of its membership list to demonstrate that pedophilia groups have been expelled."[53]
Pedophile Themes Abound in Gay Literature


The late "beat" poet Allen Ginsberg illustrates the seamless connection between homosexuality and pedophilia. Many know Ginsberg as an illustrious "out" homosexual poet: fewer are aware that he was also a pedophile.
Biographer Raymond-Jean Frontain refers to Ginsberg's publications in both NAMBLA Bulletin and NAMBLAJournal. He discusses how Ginsberg's biographers failed to discuss his poems that contained pederastic themes:
Although both Shumacher and Barry Miles (Ginsberg's initial biographer) frankly discuss Ginsberg's sexual politics, neither refers to his involvement with the controversial North American Man/Boy Love Association. . . . I reread Collected Poems and Ginsberg's two subsequent collections, surprised by the pattern of references to anal intercourse and to pederasty that emerged.[54]
Ginsberg was one of the first of a growing number of homosexual writers who cater to the fascination with pedophilia in the gay community. Mary Eberstadt, writing in the Weekly Standard, documents how the taboo against sex with children continues to erode--with the impetus coming from homosexual writers.[55]
Revealingly, the examples she provides of pedophilia in current literature come from gay fiction. Eberstadt cites the Village Voice, which states that "Gay fiction is rich with idyllic accounts of 'intergenerational relationships,' as such affairs are respectfully called these days."[56] Other examples of pedophilia-themed gay fiction include:
In the introduction of the "mainstream" homosexual anthology Penguin Book on International Gay Writing, David Leavitt notes matter-of-factly that "Another 'forbidden' topic from which European writers seem less likely to shrink is the love of older men for young boys." Leavitt praises one book with a pedophilic theme included in the anthology as a "coolly assured narrative [which] compels the reader to imagine the world from a perspective he might ordinarily condemn."[57]
Several texts included in another anthology, The Gay Canon: Great Books Every Gay Man Should Read, feature scenes of man-boy sex. One such book is praised as "an operatic adventure into the realms of love, personality, ambition and art . . . a pure joy to read." The protagonist is "a pedophile's dream: the mind of a man in the body of a boy."[58] Another novel which includes graphic descriptions of sexual violence against boys is said to "[tear] straight to the heart of one of the greatest sources, community-wide, of 1990's gay angst: What to do with men who love boys?"[59]
Yet another anthology of homosexual fiction, A History of Gay Literature: The Male Tradition, published by Yale University Press, includes "a longish chapter on 'Boys and Boyhood' which is a seemingly definitive account of pro-pedophile literary works."[60] The author appears more concerned with the feelings and emotions of the man than with his boy victim. He explores the question of "whether or not you regard [having sex with boys] as a way of retreating from life or, on the contrary, as a way of engaging with it at its most honest and least corrupted level."[61]
A significant percentage of books that have appeared on the Gay Men's Press fiction bestseller list contain pedophilia themes, including:
Some Boys: described as a "memoir of a lover of boys" that "evokes the author's young friends across four decades."[62]
For a Lost Soldier: the story of a sexual relationship between a soldier and an eleven-year-old boy, set during World War II.[63]
A Good Start, Considering: yet another story about an eleven-year-old boy (!) who suffers sexual abuse but is rescued by a teenager who "offers him love and affection"[64]
Terre Haute: billed as "A poetic novel of sexual awakening in the American Midwest, tracing an adolescent's journey from introspection to perilous desire."
Shiva and Arun: the story of two Indian adolescents who "discover early on the joys of sex."
Teardrops on My Drum: barefoot kids in 1920's Liverpool search for "adventure, love and sex."
Pro-pedophilia Publications


Recent years have seen the appearance of publications that lend a scholarly veneer to the fascination with pedophilia in the gay community. Such publications attempt to make the case for "intergenerational intimacy." The nation's largest gay publisher, Alyson Publications, which distributes Daddy's Roommate and other homosexual books that promote homosexuality to children, publishes books advocating man-boy sex, including:
Paedophilia: The Radical Case, which contains detailed information on how to engage in sexual relations with young boys.[65]
The Age Taboo, another defense of pedophilia which claims: "Boy-lovers . . . are not child molesters. The child abusers are . . . parents who force their staid morality onto the young people in their custody."[66]
The Journal of Homosexuality and Pedophilia


The Journal of Homosexuality is viewed as the premier "mainstream" English-language publication of the gay movement. One prominent editor is John DeCecco, a psychologist at San Francisco State University who also serves on the editorial board of the Dutch pedophile journal Paidika. It is therefore not surprising to see pedophilia promoted on its pages.
In 1990 the Journal of Homosexuality published a series of essays on pedophilia that were eventually published asMale Inter-Generational Intimacy:Historical, Socio-Psychological, and Legal Perspectives, edited by pedophile Edward Brongersma. None of the essays offered any substantive criticism of pedophilia: most blatantly promoted man-boy love as the natural right of homosexuals.
In 1999 Helmut Graupner, wrote an article on pedophilia in the Journal of Homosexuality, in which he claims: "Man/boy and woman/girl relations without doubt are same-sex relations and they do constitute an aspect of gay and lesbian life." Graupner argues that, as such, consensual sexual relations between adult homosexuals and youths as young as fourteen qualifies as a "gay rights issue."[67]
The fascination with pedophilia continues to be a cause of concern even within the gay community. Lesbian columnist Paula Martinac, writing in the homosexual newspaper Washington Blade, states:
[S]ome gay men still maintain that an adult who has same-sex relations with someone under the legal age of consent is on some level doing the kid a favor by helping to bring him or her 'out.' It's not pedophilia, this thinking goes--pedophilia refers only to little kids. Instead, adult-youth sex is viewed as an important aspect of gay culture, with a history dating back to 'Greek love' of ancient times. This romanticized version of adult-youth sexual relations has been a staple of gay literature and has made appearances, too, in gay-themed films.[68]
Martinac adds that "When some gay men venerate adult-youth sex as affirming while simultaneously declaring 'We're not pedophiles,' they send an inconsistent message to society. . . . The lesbian and gay community will never be successful in fighting the pedophile stereotype until we all stop condoning sex with young people."[69]
VICTIM'S TURNED VICTIMIZERS: THE CONSEQUENCES OF HOMOSEXUAL CHILD ABUSE


The steadfast denial of the disturbing ties with pedophilia within the homosexual movement is no purely academic matter. Perhaps the most tragic aspect of the homosexual-pedophile connection is the fact that men who sexually molest boys all too often lead their victims into homosexuality and pedophilia. The evidence indicates that a high percentage of homosexuals and pedophiles were themselves sexually abused as children:
The Archives of Sexual Behavior reports: "One of the most salient findings of this study is that 46 percent of homosexual men and 22 percent of homosexual women reported having been molested by a person of the same gender. This contrasts to only 7 percent of heterosexual men and 1 percent of heterosexual women reporting having been molested by a person of the same gender."[70]
A study of 279 homosexual/bisexual men with AIDS and control patients discussed in the Journal of the American Medical Association reported: "More than half of both case and control patients reported a sexual act with a male by age 16 years, approximately 20 percent by age 10 years."[71]
Noted child sex abuse expert David Finkelhor found that "boys victimized by older men were over four times more likely to be currently engaged in homosexual activity than were non-victims. The finding applied to nearly half the boys who had had such an experience. . . . Further, the adolescents themselves often linked their homosexuality to their sexual victimization experiences."[72]
A study in the International Journal of Offender Therapy and Comparative Criminology found: "In the case of childhood sexual experiences prior to the age of fourteen, 40 percent (of the pedophile sample) reported that they had engaged 'very often' in sexual activity with an adult, with 28 percent stating that this type of activity had occurred 'sometimes'"[73]
National Institute of Justice report states that "the odds that a childhood sexual abuse victim will be arrested as an adult for any sex crime is 4.7 times higher than for people . . . who experienced no victimization as children."[74]
Child Abuse and Neglect study found that 59 percent of male child sex offenders had been "victim of contact sexual abuse as a child."[75]
The Journal of Child Psychiatry noted that "there is a tendency among boy victims to recapitulate their own victimization, only this time with themselves in the role of perpetrator and someone else the victim."[76]
The circle of abuse is the tragic legacy of the attempts by homosexuals to legitimize having sex with boys. For too many boys it is already too late to protect them from those who took advantage of their need for love and attention. All too many later perpetrate the abuse by themselves engaging in the sexual abuse of boys. Only by exposing the lies, insincere denials, and deceptions--including those wrapped in scholastic garb--of those who prey sexually on children, can we hope to build a wall of protection around the helpless children among us.

REFERENCES
1. Dawn Fisher, "Adult Sex Offenders: Who are They? Why and How Do They Do It?" in Tony Morrison, et al., eds.,Sexual Offending Against Children (London: Routledge, 1994), p. 11.
2. Kee MacFarlane, et al., Sexual Abuse of Young Children: Evaluation and Treatment (New York: The Guilford Press, 1986), p. 9.
3. John Briere, et al.,eds., The APSAC Handbook on Child Maltreatment (Thousand Oaks, California: Sage Publications, 1996), pp. 52, 53.
4. Kurt Freund, et al., "Pedophilia and Heterosexuality vs. Homosexuality," Journal of Sex and Marital Therapy 10 (Fall 1984): 198; See also Freund, K, and Watson, R. J., "The Proportions of Heterosexual and Homosexual Paedophiles among Sex Offenders against Children: an Exploratory Study," Journal of Sex and Marital Therapy 18 (1992): 34.
5. Bill Watkins and Arnon Bentovim, "The Sexual Abuse of Male Children and Adolescents: A Review of Current Research," Journal of Child Psychiatry 33 (1992); in Byrgen Finkelman, Sexual Abuse (New York: Garland Publishing, 1995), p. 300.
6. MacFarlane, p. 9.
7. Kurt Freund, et al., "Pedophilia and Heterosexuality vs. Homosexuality," Journal of Sex and Marital Therapy 10 (1984): 197. "The proportional prevalence of offenders against male children in this group of 457 offenders against children was 36 percent." See also, Kurt Freund, et al., "Heterosexuality, Homosexuality, and Erotic Age Preference," "Approximately one-third of these individuals had victimized boys and two-thirds had victimized girls. This finding is consistent with the proportions reported in two earlier studies," p. 107.
8. Watkins and Bentovim, p. 315.
9. Robert L. Johnson, "Long-term Effects of Sexual Abuse in Boys," Medical Aspects of Human Sexuality (September 1988): 38.
10. "Understanding and Investigating Child Sexual Exploitation," (U.S. Department of Justice, Office of Justice Programs, 1997), p. 12.
11. Watkins and Bentovim, p. 302.
12. Dan Black, et al., "Demographics of the Gay and Lesbian Population in the United States: Evidence from Available Systematic Data Sources," Demography 37 (May 2000): 141.
13. John O. G. Billy, et al., "The Sexual Behavior of Men in the United States," Family Planning Perspectives 25 (March/April 1993): 58.
14. J. Gordon Muir, "Homosexuals and the 10 percent Fallacy," Wall Street Journal (March 31, 1993).
15. Milton Diamond, "Homosexuality and Bisexuality in Different Populations," Archives of Sexual Behavior 22 (1993):300.
16. Ibid. Significantly, a number of studies that were surveyed, and which skewed the overall percentages of homosexuals upwards, included such vague definers as those having had "any homosexual body contact." In contrast, one study that was limited to self-identifying homosexuals found that less than 2 percent of the male respondents considered their "sexual orientation" to be homosexual, p. 293.
17. Freund, "Heterosexuality, Homosexuality, and Erotic Age Preference," p. 107. In this and previous studies, Freund claims that homosexuals are no more likely than heterosexuals to be attracted to children (p. 115). However, Silverthorn, et al., mentions the limitations of studies by Freund and others: "Studies of homosexual male preferences are also limited. . . . The Freund et al.(1973) study was possibly compromised because the homosexual men used in the study were selected to be sexually attracted to adults, but not teenaged, males. The Bailey et al(1994) study was limited in that it did not present participants with objective stimuli but simply asked participants to report what age of sexual partner they preferred . . . the Jankowiak et al. (1992) study . . . was limited in two ways: the homosexual male participants had a limited age range of 'middle-aged professionals' and the stimuli presented to participants were also of a limited age range ('university to middle-aged')." Silverthorn attempted to correct these deficiencies, and in his study found that homosexuals "preferred younger partners than those who preferred female partners"--in cluding those as young as fifteen. Zebulon A. Silverthorne and Vernon L. Quinsey, "Sexual Partner Age Preferences of Homosexual and Heterosexual Men and Women," Archives of Sexual Behavior 29 (February 2000): 67-76.
18. Ray Blanchard, et al., "Fraternal Birth Order and Sexual Orientation in Pedophiles," Archives of Sexual Behavior29 (2000): 464.
19. Ibid., p. 471.
20. John M. W. Bradford, et al., "The Heterogeneity/Homogeneity of Pedophilia," Psychiatric Journal of the University of Ottawa 13 (1988): 225. Elsewhere the study notes: "Researchers have variously estimated the incidence of homosexual pedophilia between 19 percent and 33 percent of reported molestations," p. 218.
21. Freund, "Pedophilia and Heterosexuality vs. Homosexuality," p. 197.
22. Michele Elliott, "Child Sexual Abuse Prevention: What Offenders Tell Us," Child Abuse and Neglect 19 (1995): 581.
23. The fact sheet discusses a study by Carole Jenny, et al., which claims that only 2 of 269 child molesters could be identified as gay or lesbian. Carole Jenny, et al., "Are Children at Risk for Sexual Abuse by Homosexuals?"Pediatrics 94 (July 1994): 41-44. However, the Jenny study utilized an atypical research technique: the reported child molesters themselves were not interviewed. Instead, the researchers relied upon the subjective opinions of "informants" who accompanied the child victim to the medical clinic. The qualifications for such "informants" to determine the sexual behavior of the accused molester were not established. However, once it is "determined" beforehand that pedophiles who molest boys cannot be considered gay or homosexual if they have had sexual relations with women, it is a foregone conclusion that few if any of the pedophiles -who often have girlfriends, are married, and have children - will be labeled homosexual. The Jenny study used this narrow profile despite the fact that the study itself found that 22 percent of the perpetrators were of the same sex as the victim. In these cases the molesters clearly engaged in homosexual sexual molestation.
24. "Fact Sheet on Sexual Orientation and Child Abuse," Human Rights Campaign (2001):available at:http://hrc.grassroots.com/family/soandchildabusefact/. The fact sheet discusses a study by Carole Jenny, et al., which claims that only 2 of 269 child molesters could be identified as gay or lesbian. Carole Jenny, et al., "Are Children at Risk for Sexual Abuse by Homosexuals?" pp. 41-44. However, the Jenny study utilized an atypical research technique. The reported child molesters themselves were not interviewed; instead, the researchers relied upon the subjective opinions of "informants" who accompanied the child victim to the medical clinic.
25. Note that the well-accepted definition of "child" as someone between infancy and the age of maturation is employed here.
26. Bradford, p.218.
27. "[Pedophiles] can be of either sex or any [sexual] orientation, i.e., homosexual, heterosexual or bisexual."Paedophilia:Some Questions and Answers (London: Paedophilic Informational Exchange, 1978); quoted in Seth L. Goldstein, "Investigating Child Sexual Exploitation:Law Enforcement's Role," FBI Law Enforcement Bulletin 53 (January 1984): 23.
28. W. L. Marshall, et al., "Sexual Offenders against Male Children: Sexual Preferences," Behavior Research and Therapy 26 (March 1988): 390.
29. Freund, "Pedophilia and Heterosexuality vs. Homosexuality," p.194.
30. Ibid., p. 197.
31. Bradford, et al., p. 217.
32. Ibid., pp. 218, 219.
33. Marshall, p. 390.
34. James Bickley and Anthony R. Beech, "Classifying Child Abusers: Its Relevance to Theory and Clinical Practice,"International Journal of Offender Therapy and Comparative Criminology 45 (2001): 56.
35. Krisin A. Danni, et al., "An Analysis of Predicators of Child Sex Offender Types Using Presentence Investigation Reports," International Journal of Offender Therapy and Comparative Criminology 44 (2000): 491.
36. Zebulon A. Silverthorne and Vernon L. Quinsey, "Sexual Partner Age Preferences of Homosexual and Heterosexual Men and Women," p.73.
37. Karla Jay and Allen Young, The Gay Report: Lesbians and Gay Men Speak Out about Sexual Experiences and Lifestyles(New York: Summit Books, 1979), p. 275
38. Marshall, "Sexual Offenders against Male Children: Sexual Preferences," p. 383.
39. W. L. Marshall, et al., "Early Onset and Deviant Sexuality in Child Molesters," Journal of Interpersonal Violence 6 (1991): 323-336.
40. W. D. Erickson, "Behavior Patterns of Child Molesters," Archives of Sexual Behavior 17 (1988): 83.
41. John F. Harvey, O.S.F.S., The Homosexual Person: New Thinking in Pastoral Care (San Francisco: Ignatius Press:1987): 221
42. Ibid., p. 219.
43. Elliott, p. 581.
44. Marshall, "Sexual Offenders against Male Children: Sexual Preferences," p. 383.
45. Bradford, p. 219.
46. Bradford, p. 224.
47. "Understanding and Investigating Child Sexual Exploitation," p. 5.
48. Thorstad is co�'author, with John Lauritsen, of The early homosexual rights movement (1864�'1935) (New York: Times Change Press, 1974).
49. David Thorstad, "May/Boy Love and the American Gay Movement" Journal of Homosexuality 20 (1990): 252.
50. Ibid., p. 253.
51. Ibid., p. 258.
52. Ibid., p. 266.
53. George Archibald, "U.N. Group Keeps Ban on Gay Lobby," Washington Times (May 1, 2002).
54. Raymond-Jean Frontain, "The Works of Allen Ginsberg," Journal of Homosexuality 34 (1997): 109.
55. Mary Eberstadt, "'Pedophilia Chic' Reconsidered" The Weekly Standard 6 (January 8, 2001).
56. Ibid., p. 21.
57. Ibid., p. 22.
58. Ibid.
59. Ibid.
60. Ibid., p. 23.
61. Ibid. Emphasis added by Eberstadt.
62. Ibid., p. 23.
63. Ibid.
64. From the Gay Men's Press website: www.gmppubs.co.uk/cgi-bin/web_store/web_store.cgi
65. Tom O'Carroll, Paedophilia: The Radical Case (Boston:Alyson Publications, 1982).
66. Daniel Tsang, editor, The Age Taboo: Gay Male Sexuality, Power, and Consent (Boston: Alyson Publications ; London : Gay Men's Press, 1981), p. 144.
67. Helmut Graupner, "Love Versus Abuse: Crossgenerational Sexual Relations of Minors: A Gay Rights Issue?"Journal of Homosexuality 37 (1999): 23, 26.
68. Paula Martinac, "Mixed Messages on Pedophilia Need to be Clarified, Unified," Washington Blade (March 15, 2002).
69. Ibid.
70. Marie, E. Tomeo, et al., "Comparative Data of Childhood and Adolescence Molestation in Heterosexual and Homosexual Persons," Archives of Sexual Behavior 30 (2001): 539.
71. Harry W. Haverkos, et al., "The Initiation of Male Homosexual Behavior," The Journal of the American Medical Association 262 (July 28, 1989): 501.
72. Watkins and Bentovim, p. 316.
73. Gary A. Sawle, Jon Kear-Colwell, "Adult Attachment Style and Pedophilia: A Developmental Perspective,"International Journal of Offender Therapy and Comparative Criminology 45 (February 2001):6.
74. Cathy Spatz Widom, "Victims of Childhood Sexual Abuse - Later Criminal Consequences," Victims of Childhood Sexual Abuse Series:NIJ Research in Brief, (March 1995): 6.
75. Elliott, p. 582.


76. Watkins, p. 319. Watkins mentions several studies confirming that between 19 percent and 61 percent of male sex abusers had previously been sexually abused themselves.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

As to "gay marriage", there is no such thing.   There are civil unions already and some heterosexual couples join in this way rather than marry.   Homosexuals can join in a civil union.  It is hard to make a comparison to this, as it is simply absurd.   Marriage is a religious sacrament, a tradition of mankind and it is always male and female, period.   

"Gay marriage" is like mobile home users around the nation refusing to pay property taxes but instead demanding to get auto licenses for their mobile homes instead.   A mobile home on a lot is NOT A VEHICLE, but the mobile home users insist on their "licensing rights" to get automobile plates just as people do with cars, trucks and motorcycles...while avoiding the property tax payment.  

How about this comparison?   A group of people who own exotic animals want their tigers and hyenas and crocodiles licensed like dogs, with no more ordinances that limit their ownership or right to have them in their yards or walk them on leashes than dog owners?   You think that it is their "right" to have a couple of alligators in the back yard or to walk down the sidewalk with a brown bear on a leash?   Should they have "equal pet rights" with non-traditional animals who can and will  hunt humans?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Here is a letter from a commenter:

Dearest lava, Here is an example of what is happening at one gay youth organization. The letter writer Mr Flanders, complains about sexual abuses than recants when pro family people used his letter to expose the abuse. 

this is what Mr Flanders wrote:
January 13, 2007

To Whom It May Concern:

My name is Adam Flanders. I am 20 years old and a current resident of Belfast, Maine. I am writing to you on behalf of my own concerns, as well as the concerns of other youth members and past members (who wish to remain anonymous) of the nonprofit organization, OUT! ... As I Want to Be located in Rockland, Maine. We wish to inform you of the negligence and abuse of OUT advisors and adult members. Let me briefly summarize the original purpose of this organization.

OUT was thc rebirth of Outright, a Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Transgender, and Questioning non-profit organization for youth support, affirmation, and advocacy. When Outright Portland began demanding monetary compensation for their name (copyright), we were forced to alter ours. In addition, Rockland Outright fell into a difficult financial situation after the close of the Coastal AIDS Network (CAN), our primary source of funds. In addition, after several legal disputes, Portland Outright closed and has been renewed under the name, "PRYSM " 'The remaining members of Rockland Outright formed OUT, a small group consisting of several youth members and a few adult advisors. The policies and ground rules were lazily thrown together as a direct copycat of the former Portland Outright.

OUT has since been mismanaged in many ways, but I (we) wish to inform you of the apparent negligence of the adult advisors and board members resulting in the emotional distress, abuse, and harm brought to youth members as young as fourteen years old. We can only speak from personal experience, and since I am the only individual willing to reveal my identity, I will begin with my personal experience of OUT and I will then summarize the complaints of those individuals who wish to remain anonymous.

The majority of my time with OUT was spent at the (public) Lincoln Street Center (LSC) in Rockland, Maine once a week; every Friday night from 7 to 10 PM. However, the location has now moved to the private home of Ed and Virginia Slawson in Rockland, Maine and is now held 3 times a week. During my time at OUT meetings, my boyfriend [JL] and I would oftentimes sneak down to the restrooms in the lower part of the building to have sex, beginning when he was 14 and I was 18 -- mostly because his father disapproved of our relationship and these meetings were our only opportunity to do this. We did this on many occasions, and several of the other youth were aware of this fact and I wouldn't doubt that similar relations occurred between other members of OUT during our nightly meetings from 7 to 10 PM. I bet the advisors were aware of this, too.

There was virtually little to no level of chaperoning, as adult advisors such as Phil Hansen and Lis Clark stressed the importance of a youth-led organization. I recall that we never really knew where maybe half the youth members were at any given time. At least two-thirds of our group smoked avidly and I witnessed adult advisors "bumming" cigarettes to youth members, some of them under the age of 18, and also offering a light to those who already had cigarettes. OUT has its own special smoke break, sometimes several a night in which most if not all of the members gathered outside the LSC to smoke, while the few non-smokers (myself included) stood and socialized.

Several members. particularly two friends, Chris and Courtney (also youth members of the board) almost always showed up to our meetings high on marijuana and/or drunk on alcohol. Even worse, I witnessed several advisors drinking too much at such special events as OUT barbecues or other social events, with an especial focus on the night of the Question 1 victory: many of the adults were completely drunk, and our advisors, wanting to join the celebration, made the choice to simply bring along OUT youth members. The celebration was held at the home of Michael Mayo in Thomaston and I remember being touched and even groped by one of the older men there (who was clearly intoxicated), and I've heard that other youth had similar experiences. OUT advisors were also getting drunk and flirting with youth members. It made the entire situation very uncomfortable, especially at the "Rainbow Potluck," a weekly event inclusive of OUT members (still going on), attended primarily by gay and lesbian adults past the age of 40. I, myself and other youth were hit on by some of the adults at the Rainbow Potluck, and I cannot possibly imagine that our advisors were oblivious to this fact. In fact, it was occurring within our own organization.

I once spent the night at one of the advisor's homes (Jeff), with another youth member who was also his nephew (Tyler) up from Florida. Tyler and I engaged in minor sexual contact beneath Jeff's loft that night, though I awoke to find the two of them showering together outside, completely in the nude. In my personal opinion, it is highly inappropriate for an adult advisor in his thirties to be showering nude with a youth member, age 14 at the time. The abuse did not stop there.

Late in the Summer of 2006, the president of OUT, Phil Hansen was forcefully required to step down from his position. The other board members held a secret meeting against Phil, and it was reported to me that the reason being was because he had expressed some extreme forms of sexism by completely disregarding what the female members of the board had to say. One of the youth board members (Courtney) reported to me that she left crying due to a sexual remark and personal attack Phil had made against her during one of the board meetings, which have always been held in the private home of Ed and Virginia Slawson. I was not entirely surprised -- I recall Phil's stories he told to OUT members, affectionate stories from Greek literature about young boys having sexual relations with older men and open jokes about pedophilia at meetings in his own positive spin on things. This type of sexual abuse and verbal harassment has become a common part of OUT and its advisors and youth members -- almost like a mutual joke shared by everyone, but making many if not most of the youth very uncomfortable and distressed. It especially concerns me now because the meetings are being held 3 times a week in the private home of Ed and Virginia Slawson.

To summarize some of the experiences of other youth members at OUT meetings and events, I will list the following for the purpose of simplicity, and then finish with a final, more personal note.

[AC], a youth member, continually and repeatedly sexually harassing other youth members with advances and lies about his sexual relations, which according to him, were with every member of OUT. Even our coordinator (advisor) Lis Clark joked about how pathetic his constant lies were, and yet when myself and other youth members complained of the sexual harassment, Lis simply scoffed it off as immaturity.

Another youth member, [JC] threatened suicide online and blamed it on myself, because he looked up to me and was jealous of my relationship with [JL]. The youth member Chris discovered [JC]'s online post while browsing a gay porn hookup site (www.gaywatch.com) during an OUT meeting. It caused a lot of distress to all of us, knowing he was out on the streets attempting suicide while we are at our meeting.

Suicide threats and attempts have been a common part of our organization. We once invited a counselor to speak at one of our meetings, and 3 of the members just ran out of the building crying because they couldn't handle the situation. What most concerned me (and others) was the fact that none of the advisors made any attempt to catch up to them or follow up with them afterward.

Several of our OUT meetings were spent writing letters to seemingly every democrat in Knox County. The youth members were made to write sympathetic letters at the heavy pressure from OUT's new president, J.P. Fecteau. I guess it worked because only a few months ago OUT received a $4,000 donation.

As you can see, there has been a lot of abuse and negligence that has caused more harm to innocent youth than I could possibly begin to describe, and it continues today, and tomorrow, and the next.

My own personal association with OUT came to a sudden and violent end when my boyfriend [JL] of 14 months broke up with me. I knew I could find him at the meeting, and when I physically latched onto him and refused to let go, OUT advisors were forced to restrain me. I had also brought a knife with me with plans to commit suicide and possibly attempt to murder [JL] along with myself. I was arrested on domestic assault charges. I think this is one example, among many I have already shown, that reveals the inherent dangers an organization like OUT creates for vulnerable youth. Even before that, there was a court-issued order against [JL] to not have any contact with me, and while Lis Clark (advisor) knew this, she still allowed us to sneak and see one another at OUT meetings, helping us lie to [JL]'s parents on several occasions. Advisors have been known to lie to parents. One 14 year old (Eric); his parents were under the impression he was attending an art class every Friday night.

With my terminated membership, I've had time to reflect on the horrors of this organization and how much influence it has on the Rockland community and beyond -- especially impressionable youth -- youth who are encouraged by OUT advisors to disobey their parents and develop their GLB or T orientation. OUT hands out condoms and lubricant like candy. Being the web designer and owning exclusive rights to all photos and code, I, being permanently exiled from the organization I brought up, made the obvious, perhaps bitter choice to take the site with me. I threatened legal suit if they did not remove all web content from the URL www.outasiwanttobe.org.

I am writing to you because I fear for the well-being of OUT youth members, especially now that meetings are being held 3 times more often and now in a private home rather than a public facility. It is my hope that the Bureau of Health will do everything in their power to seriously investigate this seemingly innocent organization that has such a dark past full of negligence, irresponsibility, sexual harassment, abuse, and ultimately emotional harm that could leave permanent scars in the lives of many vulnerable youth in Maine, or even destroy their lives completely. It makes me wonder, what horrendous acts will occur this week, or the next, or in the many months to come? More importantly, what will the BoH and the Rockland community do to make sure these destructive adult "advisors" are no longer allowed to have influence on these poor youth?

I appreciate your time and hope you will consider my words seriously with the utmost concern for the welfare of Maine's children.

Sincerely,

[Signed]

Adam Flanders
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

As I commented in the previous post:

"I worked in a 12 step program for a few years. I did presentations, gave a testimony of how I overcame addictions and also co-dependency. I eventually went beyond counseling to the board of directors and was the editor of all the publications for the organization. I know a LOT about addictions.

Many of the people dealing with addictions and co-dependency were molested as children, mostly by male relatives and an inordinate amount of that was male on male. 

I actually believe that male on male child abuse is under-reported because the child feels especially stigmatized and victimized. To be a boy and be molested and/or raped by an adult male is an extremely difficult thing for him to reveal to people. Child molesters use all sorts of lures to begin the activity and threats to maintain it or keep it hidden. 

Children have a great deal of fear of revealing being molested, and that fear is increased if the molestation is same-sex molestation. Kids are NOT ready for sex and actually we know the human mind is not even done "growing up" at age 18, let alone 12 or 8 or 5! When they are lured or forced into sexual activity it causes trauma that tends to cause them to self-medicate, to be depressed and sometimes do the very same thing to a child when he or she (far less often) as an adult. 

Traumatized kids, if they don't commit suicide before they become adults, will not be able to just throw the trauma away. It can dominate their lives and lead them to self-destructive behavior and bad relationships. 

All that being said, I am vehemently opposed and very angry at the organizations that promote child sex and child-adult sex and homosexual "marriage" (oxymoron because marriage is a male and a female), as these things ruin lives and degrade society. 

So many dead kids and adults who turned to crack, for instance, after being traumatized. Crack cocaine is a terrible addiction, it literally changes your brain and makes overcoming the addiction exceedingly difficult. Many of these deaths are a direct result of adults molesting children. Those of you who support this garbage, you are disgusting and dangerous and you have blood on your hands!

~~~~~~

Chaos, it would be great if you did some research before commenting. The multiple LGBT groups plus NAMBLA have promoted curriculum for grade schoolers teaching them to masturbate, seek out sexual partners of both sexes and oh, yeah, use a condom. 

Did you see the commenter who gave insight to one of the groups involved in this situation, setting up and promoting sex with adults?

These groups are radicals and they are promoting sex with children. Meanwhile, third world countries are being strong-armed into officially abandoning their morality to get funding to fight AIDS. 

Kenya's ABC program is EXACTLY what we should be teaching in the USA because it is the only thing that works AND it protects children from being propagandized into thinking it would be great to begin having sex even as a grade-schooler.

Individual homosexuals can be wonderful people, I agree. It is not about them. I do not think that they should be harassed or mistreated. Nor do I think they should try to steal marriage from heterosexuals, it is an institution and a religious ceremony for man and woman. Legal civil unions for homosexuals are available in all 50 states.

You have not understood what the blobpost asserts. For one thing, I vehemently disagree with the idea of any kind of "rights" for homosexuals to change societal mores or change the definition and institution of marriage or to proselytize children. They have the right to engage in sex and join in civil unions without any issues. So they LGBT and NAMBLA push is for promiscuity, pedophilia and then on from there.

As the Jamaican attorney said, there is not a right to behavior. I may wish to have my neighbor's lawnmower and it is legal for me to purchase one, but not steal his. Homosexuals want to live together and seal it with a civil union, fine, just don't come steal my marriage. There is no right to exceed the speed limit and you will get a ticket if caught. Suppose a group began teaching kids to go 30 miles over the speed limit and gave them cars to drive in grade school, what kind of havoc would ensue? Same thing when you teach kids to have sex, have non-traditional sex and encourage them to explore sex with adults! 

If a homosexual wants to have sex with another homosexual, that is already in place. But they are not satisfied with this. Ask yourself why and then think on what the radicals are seeking to do in schools and foreign nations. You are a smart guy.

Furthermore, interfaith and interracial marriages are simply marriages between a male and female. I do not think much of even making racial distinctions and would prefer a post-racial society. 

Homosexuals are not a race, they are not a faith, we are talking about a chosen sexual behavior that is not normative, does not promote family, does not protect children, is more likely to result in STDs and partner violence and suicides. To be a homosexual is dangerous, especially for males. Male with male sex is the number one AIDS producing activity in the world and in the USA. 

NAMBLA is already pushing to lower the age of consent in individual states. Again, sex with children is one of the primary aims of the radical groups. Individual homosexuals may not be part of this at all. Fine. I have had a homosexual boss in the past, was in the army with one for sure (who was a friend) and worked with two guys and one gal who were homosexuals and I really got along with them just fine. I am not afraid of nor do I treat someone poorly if they are homosexual. I don't think it is a good idea, obviously, and I avoided the army shower when that one particular guy was there but otherwise it was no big deal. It is radicals that are attacking a religious institution and seeking to change it and are going after children that I oppose.

28 comments:

DogMaBlog said...

I only have one correction to this excellent and informative post, ABC AIDS prevention is in Uganda not Kenya. Uganda had the highest AIDS infection in Africa. They instituted A-abstinence before marriage, B- be faithful in marriage, and C- use a condom if you can't do A & B.

I don't agree with C but Uganda's AIDS rates have fallen beyond other countries.

DogMaBlog said...

I only have one correction to this excellent and informative post, ABC AIDS prevention is in Uganda not Kenya. Uganda had the highest AIDS infection in Africa. They instituted A-abstinence before marriage, B- be faithful in marriage, and C- use a condom if you can't do A & B.

I don't agree with C but Uganda's AIDS rates have fallen beyond other countries.

DogMaBlog said...

Who thinks that the sexual revolution has helped society?
Who thinks that anyone should be free to have sex with any one they want?
Who thinks that teaching kids that it is good to look at pornography and masturbate?
Who thinks that kids should be free to explore their sexual curiosities with other children?
Planned Parenthood does! Check out their Teen website for your self.

http://www.plannedparenthood.org/info-for-teens/

Anonymous said...

"Who thinks that the sexual revolution has helped society?"

Me.

"Who thinks that anyone should be free to have sex with any one they want?"

Among consenting adults, yes.

"Who thinks that teaching kids that it is good to look at pornography and masturbate?"

I don't know what that sentence means, but if memory serves "kids" figure out masturbation (and in some cases, pornography) right about at the right time.

"Who thinks that kids should be free to explore their sexual curiosities with other children?"

I don't, but your claim that Planned Parenthood thinks this is pretty misleading, DogMaBlog. The Planned Parenthood site provides sex info to teenagers, i.e. people who are going through an intense period of trying to figure out their sexuality. That's a little different from the blanket term "kids" and "children".

Just out of curiosity, at what age do you think someone should be told about the birds and the bees? 18? 21?

Anonymous said...

Yeah! Let's beg the question to prove the point! Radar is full of crap. Who is he to use well reasoned arguments about people's unnatural sexual practices and disease spreading? Bang anyone or anything you want to and call it love.

'Just out of curiosity, at what age do you think someone should be told about the birds and the bees? 18? 21?'

http://tinyurl.com/mtw2kz5

Anonymous said...

Clearly you failed to understand anything I wrote in my comment, even though you cited part of it.

1. Do you know what "begging the question" even means?

2. I wasn't responding to Radar's blog post, I was responding to DogMaBlog's comment.

3. I didn't say that people should "Bang anyone or anything you want to and call it love". Interesting projection on your part though.

4. 'Just out of curiosity, at what age do you think someone should be told about the birds and the bees? 18? 21?' ... happens to be a valid question. Do postpubescent teenagers have to wait until they're 18 to deal with their sexuality?

radar said...

Thanks, DogMa, I did men Uganda and not Kenya.

Parents should be teaching kids about sex, not schools. Any halfway responsible parent has done this long before kids hit puberty.

Just in case parents are so lame as to NOT deal with this then Health class in junior/senior high school should address the subject in terms of the human reproductive system and what really happens in reproduction as well as addressing myth such as condoms will always work and other more ludicrous ones.

Probably either 7th grade or 8th grade is a good time to address this.

Condoms may work, but they may break as well as leak. As to non-standard sex, that is an issue schools should not even deal with other than to point out that the behavior leads to higher instances of STDs, suicides, pedophilia and HIV infections that can lead to AIDS. Facts.

Planned Parenthood is one of the worst possible places to get any information about sex or reproduction or anything else. They are all about killing babies and anything else is not a focus. They will pretend to do counseling and so on to get Federal funding but they are simply abortion mills. People who have left the organization have detailed this extensively.

radar said...

That tiny URL is pretty stupid coming from some politically correct commenter. So you use the word "retarded" but think "homo" is not okay?

I have worked with teens and pre-teens for decades. Sex at a young age is almost always a disaster for the kids, especially the girls. I cannot remember one person in the 12 step program who was glad about starting sex young, it was always part of their spiraling down into some addiction or depression.

As a teenage boy, I wanted to have sex beginning in grade school because, well, boys begin thinking about that pretty young. We'd find a Playboy magazine or check out National Geographic at the library and for sure, when we were old enough to date we wanted to go for it. Thankfully I also began to consider what would happen if I got a girl pregnant so by the time I had a car and a job I narrowed down the field of girls I would "do it" with.

Admittedly the first time made me feel pretty good about myself but it was not a good thing for the girl, since she decided we would now be together for life and eventually marry. Not my idea at all! I was not a Christian back then. Back in the late 60's and in the 70's people were having a lot of sex expecting no consequences. But it is true that you do connect with someone if you are in a relationship and then at least one person is hurting a LOT when it is over. I think girls and young women get the worst of things, being the ones who may get pregnant and tending to get attached to the guy faster than the other way around.

Anyway, became a Christian, quit chasing girls and now married. Having a wife and being faithful and devoted to my best friend is far better than being a party animal in all sorts of ways.

Oh, and I taught my kids about sex and all aspects of relationships before any school tried to do it and had them understanding as much as possible the incredible lure of sex at the moment with someone you are attracted to in moments like a beach or a car or anyplace alone and you are both infatuated. Did my best to prepare them to be ready because that is like the undertow at a beach, it is more powerful than you think and it can drag you down where you thought you would not go.

Mostly my kids avoided dating unless they were already friends with the other person and knew them pretty well. Half of them are still waiting for the right one to come along and smart to do. Half of them found the right one or thought so. Therefore I have grandkids as well. Three marriages, one of which fell through as the other person was not what my one daughter thought he was, but two look like they will last and one daughter is wiser now (I hope) and will be sure next time.

Anonymous said...

"That tiny URL is pretty stupid coming from some politically correct commenter. So you use the word "retarded" but think "homo" is not okay?"

In case you didn't notice, the person that posted that tiny URL was on your side.

Reading comprehension on this blog really isn't all that great, is it?

"Parents should be teaching kids about sex, not schools. Any halfway responsible parent has done this long before kids hit puberty."

Hm, girls begin puberty around 10 or 11, boys around 11 or 12. How many years before they hit that age would you fit in your sex ed? 7, 8, 9? Seems a little young to me, to be quite honest.

"Planned Parenthood is one of the worst possible places to get any information about sex or reproduction or anything else. They are all about killing babies and anything else is not a focus."

I had a look at that PP link that DogMaBlog posted. There certainly doesn't seem to be an undue focus on "killing babies", and they cover quite a range of topics that would be important to a teenager as they discover their own sexuality - which incidentally isn't something that all teenagers are necessarily going to get from their parents or peers, so this is a useful resource.

Anonymous said...

Just in case parents are so lame as to NOT deal with this then Health class in junior/senior high school should address the subject in terms of the human reproductive system and what really happens in reproduction as well as addressing myth such as condoms will always work and other more ludicrous ones.

Wow, Radar. This may be the most reasonable thing you've ever said. I pretty much agree. Imagine I'd go a little further than you within this framework, but I think the physical basics (including disease education) and education on the different forms of contraception is what should be taught in school. Probably other related issues too, including commercially exploited youth.

(I would note: I seem to remember personally being taught in school that condoms don't always work. Not sure who is teaching they always do work. If someone is, I agree that they should stop.)

more later. The rest of your post, I don't agree with.

lava

radar said...

I have heard from Planned Parenthood employees, including one who was way up in the chain of command. They push abortions the way AAMCO pushes for transmission rebuilds. They have motivational meetings to get clinics focused on having a high percentage of visiting clients to have abortions. Planned Parenthood is just a fast-food chain for killing babies and anything else is just marketing to make themselves look respectable to those not in the know.

Not entirely sure who anonymous commenters are and I don't drill down to see (except once when I was sure it was a talkorigins guy and I had to look to see if it was) because I really do not care. I let people disagree with me or not.

As to the sex ed, teaching kids to avoid having sex as children, how to get away from potential abusers, encouraging to report unwanted advances and giving them the biological basics would be fine at a younger age. But promoting sexuality to grade schoolers? That is like throwing matches into a dynamite pile. The LAST thing kids need is a teacher encouraging them to be sexually active and to explore alternatives to heterosexual acts! That is the goal of the radical homosexual groups as already reported.

If I had remained in California, I would have no choice but to homeschool my kids to keep them away from this kind of deadly philosophy. I cannot understand a parent who is okay with this idea.

Again, I worked for years with a 12-step organization and have been working with kids and teens for decades. Early sex is one of the major causes of major emotional problems and addictions and suicides among teens and young adults. Even people who are older are often not able to overcome youthful trauma. Child sex is never going to be a good thing for the child.

A human brain does not mature until around age 25 and even then will still develop. Adolescent minds are not ready for the complexities of a full relationship involving the intimacy of sex.

If you want your kids to die young, wind up addicted to drugs or alcohol, be miserable, be in the federal pen, stuff like that? Encourage them to explore their sexuality as children.

radar said...

"more later. The rest of your post, I don't agree with.

lava"

Well, lava, you try to help people put broken lives back together for a few years, maybe you would change your mind. People who lose their jobs, their freedom, their children, their spouses...some who don't make it and wind up killing themselves.

See, it is easy to sit in the Ivory Tower and look over at humanity and decide what should be from your own point of view. But when you see what child abuse of all kinds, especially child sex, does to the victims (even those who did not think of themselves as victims at the time) your perspective might change.

Imagine being abused as a kid and using drugs to deal with the pain, marrying another drug user and having children while trying to keep away from the stuff. But the urge never goes away and you keep going back to the drugs. Finally you fall back into addiction full time and you wind up selling everything you can get your mitts on to get another fix? Then you begin stealing and then you wind up in prison and then the state takes your children away.

I know a couple who FINALLY got away from crack cocaine. They both had childhood trauma, which in some ways brought them together. Now they are both around 40 and look much older. All of their children were taken and put into foster homes and they do not even know where they are, let alone have a chance to visit them. They'll probably die young from all the damage they've done to their bodies. I tried helping them when they were in their late twenties and they actually seemed to have overcome cocaine. I gave them a computer and a television to help them start over after losing everything but their kids.

BUT of course they had to go to a party where someone had drugs and it only took once and one of them slipped and then the other one joined in. They sold the tv and computer and resorted to theft and etc. One of them went to prison for 8 years and only recently got out. The other had the children taken from her and got by with probation. They now just work minimum wage jobs and live in semi-poverty. He is training to be a drug counselor now. Not sure if anyone will hire him.

Anonymous said...

I agree that sexual abuse of a child will mess them up for life and must be prevented as a high priority. And I can't think of anyone who would disagree with you on that. It's not a left/right-wing issue or a Christian/atheist issue.

A good friend of mine has a number of mental disorders that most likely stem from being abused by her father at an early age. It's basically ruined her life, making it incredibly difficult for her to maintain any normal relationships in her life now.

"But promoting sexuality to grade schoolers?"

Where and how exactly does this happen? And how (if that is your claim) is PP supposed to be related to this?

As for your post above, I fail to see how you make any connection to the subject of gay marriage. It seems more like you're trying to taint homosexuals overall with the stigma of child abuse, which is a pretty despicable thing to do IMO.

It would be like documenting that the vast majority of rapists are heterosuxual males, and therefore heterosexual males should not be allowed to marry. Obviously that's a stupid argument... because in a Venn diagram, the relationship between "rapists" in one circle and "males who wish to marry" in another circle is not established. Just like the relationship between "child molesters" and "gay males who wish to marry" is not established.

And even if it were... wouldn't that be an argument FOR allowing gay marriage, as being married might reduce the chance of them trying to molest children?

I also don't see the reasoning to back up your claim that gay marriage would "destroy" marriage. I'm married (heterosexually) and have been for a quarter of a century. I support gay marriage. I have a good friend who is gay and married and he and his partner couldn't be happier. Seeing him happily married strengthens my belief in marriage as an institution, instead of weakening it. And if I knew that he wanted to marry his partner but was legally prevented from doing that - affording him the same rights and protections that heterosexual life partners enjoy and are entitled to - then that wouldn't make me feel much better about the institution either.

Incidentally, did you know there's something that actually threatens and destroys marriage?

Divorce.

What are your thoughts on getting rid of divorce?

Anonymous said...

See, it is easy to sit in the Ivory Tower and look over at humanity and decide what should be from your own point of view. But when you see what child abuse of all kinds, especially child sex, does to the victims (even those who did not think of themselves as victims at the time) your perspective might change.

Sometimes its surprising how wrong you can be Radar. I've worked my entire adult life in high needs communities, mainly serving children in some of the most difficult situations. I've worked in four of the poorest areas of america, with high rates of crime, drug use, and poverty. I've seen what sexual abuse does to children (and, FWIW, most has been "heterosexual pedophilia).

Look Radar, 99.9+% of everyone, gay or straight, is against child sexual abuse. To equate child sexual abuse with homosexuality is just wrong.

Even assuming the stats you quoted from FRC are right, your proposition that "child abuse is at the heart ... of gay marriage" is just wrong and bigoted. If it weren't for the "homosexual pedophiles," do think gay marriage would be an issue and happening across the country? Do you think homosexuals, who are completely against child sexual abuse, would not be pushing for the right to be married? Just because it may, in some tangental way, benefit the "homosexual pedophiles" that doesn't necessarily make it bad. It's like how some of your views would benefit, and are in line with, westboro baptist. Should I start equating everything you do to Fred Phelps?

Some of the saddest situations I've seen are homosexual teens who are either physically and emotionally abused at home because of their sexual orientation or forced out of their home to live on the streets. These teens go through a lot because of people with very similar views as you Radar, a lot of them are self professed christians. Its amazing how much hate and intolerance can be derived from Jesus, whether right or wrong.

lava

radar said...

Sometimes its surprising how wrong you can be Radar. I've worked my entire adult life in high needs communities, mainly serving children in some of the most difficult situations. I've worked in four of the poorest areas of america, with high rates of crime, drug use, and poverty. I've seen what sexual abuse does to children (and, FWIW, most has been "heterosexual pedophilia).

I bet I have worked with kids and families and troubled people longer than you, I started in 1978 working with kids and began helping with 12-step in the mid-1980's. The studies show that at LEAST one-third of child sexual abuse is homosexual but only 2% of the adult population is homosexual. Do the math and you will see why there is such a drive from radical homosexual groups to "normalize" their deviant behavior.



Look Radar, 99.9+% of everyone, gay or straight, is against child sexual abuse. To equate child sexual abuse with homosexuality is just wrong.

Not when the statistics say otherwise. Not when there is an organization like NAMBLA pouring lots of money into supporting "gay marriage" and reduced age of consent laws.

Even assuming the stats you quoted from FRC are right, your proposition that "child abuse is at the heart ... of gay marriage" is just wrong and bigoted. If it weren't for the "homosexual pedophiles," do think gay marriage would be an issue and happening across the country? Do you think homosexuals, who are completely against child sexual abuse, would not be pushing for the right to be married?

There is no such thing. Marriage is between a man and a woman, always has been. Civil unions are available to homosexuals.

radar said...

Just because it may, in some tangental way, benefit the "homosexual pedophiles" that doesn't necessarily make it bad. It's like how some of your views would benefit, and are in line with, westboro baptist. Should I start equating everything you do to Fred Phelps?

Not one of my views is the same as that group of interbred idiots. Should I equate everything you say with Jeff Dahmer?

Some of the saddest situations I've seen are homosexual teens who are either physically and emotionally abused at home because of their sexual orientation or forced out of their home to live on the streets. These teens go through a lot because of people with very similar views as you Radar, a lot of them are self professed christians. Its amazing how much hate and intolerance can be derived from Jesus, whether right or wrong.

Some people are indeed self-professed Christians and there are absolute wolves in sheeps clothing all over. There is a big church nearby where I know for a fact that the pastor and wife were doing cocaine and she nearly overdosed at a hospital where I know one of the emergency staff. I know another big church not far away where they kept an known child abuser on staff because he was the son of the pastor and the pastor was an adulterer who had a woman on the side in town and some on the road when he traveled to "preach." I know a couple in jail now for having taken in a foster child, moving, never adopting her but hiding her in the basement, making her a house slave and abusing her sexually. There are preachers on television simply there to take money from people and a couple of them have been in jail from being caught defrauding folks. Look up Robert Tilton, for instance.

Catholic priesthood turned out to be a great place for homosexual males to join in order to have sex with both adults and kids. Nuns to a far lesser extent. For some reason homosexual women are less likely to abuse children than the men according to studies.

Your reading comprehension is very bad OR you are so sure I am spreading hatred you do not actually read what I say. The UN and the Obama Administration have pushed an agenda to abort babies in all circumstances, encourage prostitution, encourage child sex, encourage homosexuality and if you read ALL of what I posted you would see that this tends to tie together neatly. It is all about the destruction of the family.

I have said over and over again that the idea of hate crimes is just the same idea as thought crimes. Either it is a crime or it isn't. What will you do when Big Brother decides YOUR thoughts are against the State and they drag you away?

I have said over and over that I do not hate individual homosexuals, but rather am dead against the radical agendas, dead against them trying to say God has changed His mind about whether it is a sin and dead against homosexuals changing the definition of marriage. Homosexual acts are a sin, divorce is a sin, robbing banks is a sin, lies are sins, sin is everywhere. Every time we legalize a sin it grows. But perhaps you just don't understand that homosexuals are not asking for the freedom to be homosexuals, they want to make the government proclaim they are not aberrant. Sorry, government cannot determine morality, only what is considered a crime and what punishment it should bring.

I do not want people jailed for adult homosexual activity. I am fine with them having a civil ceremony to join them for what they hope is the rest of their lives. But can't you see that they already have this? They want to change society and change morality and it will be at the expense of children and poor people.

radar said...

All of these anonymous commenters have been pointed to sites that detail the California laws forcing teachers to practically indoctrinate children with teaching of sex, masturbation and details of homosexual acts. Other states have been following suit.

Also, the most liberal states tend to have the worst performing public schools. Democrats in power in Washington State? High unemployment, massive housing foreclosures and schools with terrible rates of graduation and graduates with below average learning skills.

Next door Idaho, a conservative state, has excellent schools and far better employment and housing numbers.

Same comparison can be made between Illinois and Indiana. The Democratic machines of Chicago and East St Louis push Illinois into the blue column. Chicago and ESL schools are a disaster! Tax rates are higher and school performance lower in Illinois versus Indiana. Indiana foreclosures are far below average. Indiana does suffer from the Democratic machine ruling Lake County and Gary and East Chicago.

Every big Democrat-ruled city has terrible problems. The biggest cities just manage to keep the poor areas separated from successful ones. But Detroit has sections of the city so wild they might as well be jungle. Chicago has areas where parents fear to send their children to school because gang-bangers rule the entire neighborhoods and each time a child leaves home he may not come back or he will come back having been "initiated" or else beaten badly by the local gang.

This entire idea of hate crimes, promoting child sex, killing babies and paying the poor to encourage them not to marry has ruined cities and millions of lives. So many of you are so blind...

Anonymous said...

"Not one of my views is the same as that group of interbred idiots."

Exactly. Nor are the views of non-child-abusing homosexuals the same as those of child-abusing homosexuals. That should give you some idea why your line of argument simply doesn't work.

That aside, your argument is simply not logical: Even if 2/3 of child-abuse cases happen to involve homosexuals, that doesn't mean that any significant number of homosexuals are child-abusers, any more than we would conclude that any significant number of adult males are rapists.

Incidentally, a number of child abuse cases involve Catholic priests, as well. Does that mean that Catholic priests on the whole should be stigmatized?

It's a strange can of worms you've opened up here, Radar. And the link to gay marriage remains completely undemonstrated. As lava pointed out, putting aside all these child abuse stigmatization attempts, don't you think a homosexual who has never wanted to abuse a child in his life (and that would be most of them) would want gay marriage to be legal so he can enjoy the same rights and privileges with his life partner as a heterosexual? How would this child-abuse "agenda" even be associated with that?

Anonymous said...

Just like the Republican party, fundamentalist Christians will continue to lose adherents as long as they preach intolerance.

Please proceed.

radar said...

Does no one have a clue at all here? How does a camel get into a tent, remember the old proverb? Starts with the nose, ends up with camel in tent and owner shoved out!

Marriage is between man and woman, has been for all of history. Civil unions are available for both heterosexuals and homosexuals and they get partner rights that way.

But the man-woman-children family unit is the backbone of civilization. If you want to break down sexual mores, you find a wedge issue or two and then use it to bring more issues to the forefront.
So changing the tradition and sacrament of marriage is an attack on religious freedoms and rights.

If you own a car and want to call it a horse, fine. But do NOT expect the government to officially call cars horses.

radar said...

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaand the only way the Dems stay in power after the disaster that the Obama Administration has been will be giving illegal aliens, felons and dead folks the right to vote. That guy should be impeached on about five different issues.

Spying on Americans with no warrant.

IRS denying conservative and Christian groups non-profit status while gleefully giving it away to liberals.

Benghazi.

Fast and Furious.

Turning Afghanistan into a meat grinder.

Going after reporters with illegal searches, IRS investigations and etc.

Blocking energy resources being tapped, new refineries, pipelines, atomic energy plants, coal mining and other ways to drive up energy costs and grow the number of people on government aid.

Taking constant vacations and spending millions upon millions on himself and his family while average Americans are losing money to higher prices and job losses.

I could go on. Democrats have become Socialists. JFK and RFK would be Republicans now.

radar said...

What cracks me up is that the kind of hostility I tend to get in the comments thread never causes me to cry about "hate speech" from the commenters. In fact, one aspect of real freedom is the right to be someone nasty like Fred Phelps and be allowed to say the terrible things he says. When we stop the Louis Farrakhan or Jeremiah Wright from hating on white people or David Dukes or some other KKK idiot from hating black people we also take away the right of normal people to say that they hate everything Nancy Pelosi says or they despise George Bush.

There are no hate crimes, there is no hate speech, not in a free society. Either it is a crime or it isn't. Either speech is free or we have lost a fundamental right and we are about to become a tyrannical dystopia. Just TRY to think about it.

Anonymous said...

Marriage is between man and woman, has been for all of history.

I just don't get it. Why can everything else about marriage change as society's norms progress (women as chattel, marriage by race, arranged marriages, polygamy...), but the man woman part can't. Marriage is what the community recognizes as a deeply committed relationship; what that means changes and today the larger community is growing to be fine with gay marriage. I understand you want to keep fighting but you will be on the wrong side of this fight somewhere in the next 5-20 years. Your faith based community/church doesn't have to recognize them and won't have to perform gay marriage, and that's fine. Nobody is trying to change your belief in what a religious marriage really is.

And if you want to take the government out of marriage, I'm ok with that. Everyone can have a civil union who wants to (as you've proposed above) and then "marry" in any form they choose. Doesn't that really solve everything?

lava

radar said...

Again, the agenda is to change marriage by taking away the man-woman tradition, which is at the heart of the nuclear family, which is at the heart of civilization. Where countries abandon marriage and let homosexuals pretend they can marry, it just brings more troubles...ask France.

It never ends. So we pass a las saying that cars are horses aka marriages can be same-sex. Once they have destroyed marriage by changing what it is, they then can speed the rate of homosexual couples adopting children, thus putting them in statistical danger.

Lowered age of consents will come next and then other sexual orientations will be presented and the question will be asked, if homosexual sex is okay, why not pedophila? Why not necrophilis, bestiality, ad nauseum? If one deviant sexual activity is declared by society to be okay them by what logic do you deny other people's orientation. Maybe a person can only get off while killing their sex partner? Is that not a sexual orientation?

We were far fetter off when homosexuality was illegal and everyone could just ignore it, but no way did radical homosexuals have a way to begin tearing down the moral code of America? But having their aberrant sex legalisd was not enough. Having civil unions was not enough. The camel will never be happy with just the nose, the head and the neck.

The goal is complete sexual freedom and promiscuity with no regard to age limits or partners. Another Sodom and Gomorrah is the goal. People are people and those who become addicted to sex will never get enough. Thy need new thrills to satisfy them. It's a lot like getting your first fix or you first crack at crack cocaine. You keep seeking for new ways to find the same satisfaction but it is never enough.

The average person does not understand the addict/deviant mindset and think that giving them what they want will make everyone happy. But I have lived in the drug culture, lived in Central California and seen the culture there,been among drug addicts and prostitutes and such people seeking to find a way to break the cycle and be freed from their chains.

Before you break the chains, you get rid of the jailer. Drugs, sex, alcohol, co-dependency, abuse, these are jailers. STOP trying to make more jailers, people! Use your brains?

Anonymous said...

... and proceed he does. It's like telling Republicans that making statements that find nuance in rape doesn't enhance their electoral prospects.

"taking away the man-woman tradition, which is at the heart of the nuclear family, which is at the heart of civilization"

This is a part of the argument that I don't understand - NOTHING is taken away. If a man and a woman want to get married, there is nothing that is changed by this in any way whatsoever - not even by Bill and Jim down the road getting married. Do you really think a man who is going to marry his girlfriend is going to have second thoughts and consider being gay instead?

"Where countries abandon marriage and let homosexuals pretend they can marry, it just brings more troubles...ask France."

First of all, they don't "abandon marriage", marriage stays in place just as it is. It is merely added to. Nothing is taken away. See also: http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/06/12/study-same-sex-marriage-has-no-effect-on-opposite-sex-marriage-rates/

Second, those countries don't "let homosexuals pretend they can marry", they let them marry.

Third, the trouble in France is what exactly? A bunch of bigots like yourself taking to the streets? That doesn't speak against same-sex marriage, that speaks against bigots.

Seriously, that's all you've got? There are countries where same-sex marriage has been in place for a number of years now (unlike France, where it was only recently implemented). What exactly is the "trouble" that those countries have experienced as a result of same-sex marriage?

"We were far fetter off when homosexuality was illegal and everyone could just ignore it"

Wow. Do you really think the homosexuals could just ignore it?

"then other sexual orientations will be presented and the question will be asked, if homosexual sex is okay, why not pedophila? Why not necrophilis, bestiality, ad nauseum?"

Because they are not between consenting adults. Really not that hard to figure out.

When you constantly equate homosexuality with pedophilia, bestiality, necrophilia etc., you do realize that the difference between you and Fred Phelps isn't a matter of principle, but of degree, right? You're basically on the same page, he's just a bit more extreme about expressing it.

But again, please proceed. The more you spout intolerance and bigotry (and you do, whether you like it or not), the more fundamentalist Christianity will shrink over time.

radar said...

"The Elementary and Secondary Education Act (ESEA) was first signed into law in 1965 by President Lyndon B. Johnson. In 2001, President George W. Bush helped to revamp the ESEA and gave it the name No Child Left Behind Act. Bush’s version of the statute expired in 2007. Since its expiration, Congress has made a number of attempts to pass another revision of No Child Left Behind, but as yet, all attempts have failed.

Earlier this month, Sen. Tom Harkin (D-IA) introduced another massive version of the education bill. His bill covers 1,150 pages and like so many huge bills, contains hidden items that most people would never notice until it’s too late. In Harkin’s case, the hidden provision starts on page 694 and lays out plans to protect LGBT students from bullying.

The bill goes so far in protecting gay and lesbian students that any school that does not take the necessary steps to prevent bullying and harassing of gay and lesbian students could have their funding cut off. The bill says nothing about cutting the funding from schools that allow the bullying and harassing of normal student or Christian students, or Jewish student, just gays and lesbians.

Once again we see where gays and lesbians are after preferential treatment, not equal treatment. In fact, it is socially acceptable to bully and harass straight, Christian and conservative students, but it’s not okay to give the same bullying treatment to gay, lesbian, Hispanic or Muslim students." - Dave Jolly

More of the same BS - Big Brother is taking more control. It is fine to bully Christians and conservatives but do not dare bully muslims or homosexuals? Same idea as the ACLU always targeting Christians and Jews. If the Founding Fathers knew of this possibility they would have strengthened some language in the Bill of Rights and expressly forbid the central government from intruding into the affairs of State and Local governments. They did not conceive of such evil, apparently?

In grade school, there are ALWAYS bullies. No way should government differentiate between one bully and another. Furthermore, making an opinion expressed into bullying is ridiculous and an assault on the First Amendment. The inmates are in control of the institution, government has become too big, too invasive and utterly corrupt!

Anonymous said...

"Same idea as the ACLU always targeting Christians and Jews."

Except of course when the ACLU defends Christians and Jews. You really are incapable of processing new information input, aren't you?

Anonymous said...

In the end, its hard to see the benefit in even conversing with someone that is willing to simply makes stuff up to support their belief system. Like this one when presented with the reasonable stance that the vast majority of people of all sexual orientations are against child abuse.

"...Not when there is an organization like NAMBLA pouring lots of money into supporting "gay marriage" and reduced age of consent laws."

Wow... So unless you are a member of this organization (one that you KEEP bringing up BTW), how would you know this? What proof do you have that this group is making political donations? What politician is accepting this money? Again, you have absolutely nothing to back this up. It's just another one of your fantasy scenarios that you have made up, whole cloth, in order to support your crazy beliefs. Just like all of your refutations of Evolution, geology, global climate change, etc., etc. etc..

-Canucklehead.