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Tuesday, March 20, 2012

One more time...America was founded on Biblical Principles by men who revered GOD!!!

I have published a LOT of information about the Founding Fathers and much on their source material.  But this is perhaps the best all-around answer to commenters unaware of their own history...

Anything in this color is a comment by me, otherwise this article is entire and is attributed appropriately.

America's Christian Heritage - The Revolution and Beyond

by Alliance for Life Ministries

Most people don't realize what this nation was like at its beginning. Even as late as 1776 – 150 years after a Christian group we refer to as the Pilgrims moved their church to America, we see the population of our country as: 98 percent Protestant Christians, 1.8 percent Catholic Christians, and .2 of 1 percent Jewish. That means that 99.8% of the people in America in 1776 professed to be Christians.

(It should be noted that many theists who were not classic Christians still would be identified as Protestants in those days.   However theists acknowledge a Supreme Being...)
 
Reverend Jonas Clark was a very influential man and the parson of Christ Church, which was "thee" church in a small town named Lexington in 1775. In his church parking lot, only a few feet from the church parsonage, the first shot of the Revelutionary War was fired and the first blood spilled. The people that were killed were members of his congregation. Clark looked down with great anguish at the bodies of those who had died and made this statement: "From this day will be dated the liberty of the world." It began in a church. It began with a pastor that was part of the "Black Regiment" because of the black robes they wore. These pastors preached resounding sermons that resonated throughout New England about the evils of tyranny and the importance of liberty.

Revolutionary leaders were devout men who could not have been more empathic in their determination that our national policy rested on Scriptural foundation. Of the 55 delegates to the Constitutional Convention, 52 were Orthodox Christians.

(Also, many were Masons but the Masonic Lodge in the days of the Revolution was, in Europe and especially in the Colonies a kind of a 'gentlemen for freedom' club more concerned about establishing free societies than rituals and secret handshakes.)
 
OUR FOUNDING FOREFATHERS PAVE THE WAY BEFORE US:
 
After signing the Declaration of Independence, Samuel Adams, who was called the firebrand of the American Revolution, affirmed his obedience to God by stating, "We have this day restored the Sovereign to whom alone men ought to be obedient. From the rising to the setting of the sun may His kingdom come."
 
Reverend Doctor John Witherspoon, signer of the Declaration of Independence, member of the Continental Congress, described as the "man who shaped the man that shaped America" said, "God grant that in America true religion and civil liberty may be inseparable . . . ." Reverend Witherspoon was also responsible for publishing two American editions of the Bible. 

Benjamin Franklin, who signed the Declaration and was often identified as a deist in his younger years, delivered his most famous speech on June 28, 1787, at the age of eighty-one. He said, "I have lived, sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth: that God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured, Sir, in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it."
 
Other notable Christian signers of the Declaration were: Charles Thompson, who is responsible for the first translation of the Greek Septuagint into English; Dr. Benjamin Rush, founder of the first Bible Society in America; Francis Hopkinson, who was responsible for the first American hymnbook; Cesar Rodney, whose home State of Delaware (the first state to ratify the U.S. Constitution) required that officeholders sign a declaration of Christian faith, Thomas Nelson JR, Commander of the Virginia Militia, and Thomas McKean, the man responsible for the first legal commentary on the constitution of the United States. Pennsylvania's Chief Justice, a founding father, said to a man sentenced to die for treason, "It behooves you most seriously to reflect upon your conduct, to repent of your evil deeds, to be incessant in prayers to the great and merciful God to forgive you your . . . sins."

John Hancock, president of the Continental Congress, said, "Let us humbly commit our righteous cause to the great Lord of the Universe."
 
Governor Morris, who wrote the Constitution in 1787, and wrote in 1790 and in 1791, two commentaries on the Constitution said, "Religion is the solid basis of good morals; therefore education should teach the precepts of religion, and the duties of man toward God."
 
William Paterson, a signer of the Constitution, closed his speeches with Proverbs 29:2: "When the righteous rule, the people rejoice. When the wicked rule, the people groan."
 
George Mason, father of the Bill of Rights, exclaimed, "My soul I resign into the hands of my Almighty Creator, whose tender mercies are all over His works . . . "

Nathan Hale, called the "Martyr Spy," came from a solid Christian foundation and upbringing. He is best remembered for his last words, prior to laying down his life for God and country at the young age of twenty-one, "I only regret that I have but one life to lose for my country."
 
Two other founding fathers of our nation that expressed their fervent Christian beliefs were Roger Sherman and Charles Cotesworth Pinckney. Alexander Hamilton could also be added to that list. 

John Jay, first Chief Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court wrote, "Unto Him who is the Author and giver of all good, I render sincere and humble thanks for His manifold and unmerited blessings, and especially for our redemption and salvation by His beloved Son."
 
James Wilson, George Washington's appointment to the Supreme Court stated, "Christianity is part of the common-law."
 
Supreme Court Justice Joseph Story (appointed by President James Madison) called America a "Christian country."

Statesman Daniel Webster warned of political disaster. He stated, "If we and our posterity neglect religious instruction and authority . . . no man can tell how sudden a catastrophe may overwhelm us." Webster said on December 22,1820, observing the 200th anniversary of the landing of the Pilgrims at Plymouth, Massachusetts, "Let us not forget the religious character of our origin. Our fathers brought hither their high veneration of the Christian religion."
 
French historian Alex de Tocqueville, author of "Democracy in America" in 1835, wrote, "There is no country in the world where the Christian religion retains a greater influence over the souls of men than in America."
 
Noah Webster, who literally wrote the English dictionary claimed, "The moral principles and precepts contained in the Scriptures ought to form the basis of all civil Constitutions and laws."

Patrick Henry, a Christian patriot, golden tongued orator of the Revolutionary period, and the only U.S. Governor to be elected and reelected five times said in a celebrated speech before the Revolutionary War, "Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!" Henry also said, "It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the Gospels of Jesus Christ."

One of the great slogans of the American Revolution was "No King but King Jesus!"
 
In 1799 the Supreme Court in Maryland ruled: "By our form of government the Christian religion is the established religion; and all sects and denominations of Christians are placed upon equal footing, and they are equally entitled to protection in their religious liberty."
 
The founding fathers expected officeholders to be Christians.While denominational affiliation didn't matter, a belief in God and the Bible was paramount. Nine of the thirteen colonies had written constitutions. Many of them required officeholders to sign a declaration that amounted to a statement of faith. The Delaware Constitution of 1776 is a perfect example. Everyone appointed to public office had to say: "I do profess faith in God the Father, and in the Lord Jesus Christ His only Son, and in the Holy Ghost, one God, blessed forevermore; and I do acknowledge the holy scriptures of the Old and New Testaments to be given by divine inspiration."
 
Two historians at the University of Houston did a 10-year study of the ideas that shaped our republic. They started with 15,000 documents from the Colonial era, which were boiled down to 3,154 statements. The three most quoted individuals were French philosopher Montesquieu (8.3 percent), English jurist William Blackstone (7.9 percent) and English philosopher John Locke (2.9 percent). But Biblical citations dwarfed them all. Ninety-four percent of the founding fathers quotes were based on the Bible--34 percent directly from its pages and 60 percent from men who had used the Bible to arrive at their conclusions.
 
The Bible is the foundation upon which our nation was built. A hundred and nineteen of the first schools, including Harvard, Princeton, Dartmouth, and Yale, were established on the Word of God and dedicated to the Lordship of Christ and for the training of disciples of the Lord. As late as 1850 Christians ran virtually every newspaper in this country. The law and the federal and local judiciaries were either all Christians or Jewish. 

The Continental Congress, in 1777, recommended and approved that the Committee of Commerce "import 20,000 Bibles from Holland, Scotland, or elsewhere," because of the great need of the American people and the great shortage caused by the interruption of trade with England by the Revolutionary War.

PRIORITIES OF OUR EARLY U.S. PRESIDENTS:

On April 30,1789, the first President of the United States, George Washington, took the oath of office with his hand on the Bible opened to Deuteronomy 6. In his first inaugural address, President Washington acknowledged God for the reason for America's birth: "It would be improper to omit, in this first official act, my fervent supplication to that Almighty Being. . . . No people can be bound to acknowledge and adore the invisible hand which conducts the affairs of men more than people of the United States. . . . We ought to be no less persuaded that the propitious smiles of Heaven cannot be expected on a nation that disregards the eternal rules of order and right, which Heaven itself has ordained." President Washington's inaugural address concluded with a church service at Saint Paul's Chapel, led by the chaplains of Congress. 

(Technically George Washington was NOT the first President and I invite you to do the research, but he was the first President who was Chief Executive and he DID refuse to take the title of King when offered to him.)

President Washington professed his Christian faith publicly in many of his speeches and writings. "True religion offers to government its surest support," Washington said. "It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible." His personal prayer book, written in his own handwriting, declares: "O most Glorious God, in Jesus Christ my merciful loving Father, I acknowledge and confess my guilt, in the week and imperfect performance of the duties of this day." It is factual that President Washington knelt and prayed and read the Bible for one hour every day. John Marshall, Chief Justice of the Supreme Court described Washington: "Without making ostentatious professions of religion, he was a sincere believer in the Christian faith, and a truly devout man." 

John Adams, our second president, said, "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate for the government or any other."
 
Even Thomas Jefferson, third president, and one who certainly did not hold to all the traditional doctrines of Christianity, placed the Bible and Isaac Watt's Book of Psalms and Hymns in the District of Columbia's public schools. Jefferson declared religion: "Deemed in other countries incompatible with good government and yet proved by our experience to be its best support."
 
James Madison, fourth president of the United States and referred to as the "Father of the Constitution," stated, "The belief in a God All Powerful, wise and good, is essential to the moral order of the world and to the happiness of man."
 
John Quincy Adams, sixth President of the United States and "Chief Architect" of the Constitution said, "The highest glory of the American Revolution was it connected, in one indissoluble bond, the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity."
 
Andrew Jackson, our seventh president claimed (referring to the Bible) "That book, sir, is the rock on which our republic stands."

A QUICK TOUR OF OUR CAPITOL REMINDS US THAT THIS NATION WAS BUILT UPON THE FOUNDATIONS OF CHRISTIAN BELIEF.

   


  • The Supreme Court building portrays Moses holding the Ten Commandments through which the voice of God thunders "Thou shalt not murder.







  • The Capitol Rotunda contains eight massive oil paintings, each depicting a major event in history. Four of these paintings portray Jesus Christ and the Bible: 1) Columbus landing on the shores of the New World, and holding high the cross of Jesus Christ, 2) a group of Dutch pilgrims gathered around a large, opened Bible, 3) a cross being planted in the soil, commemorating the discovery of the Mississippi River by the Explorer De Soto, and 4) the Christian baptism of the Indian convert Pocahontas. 






  • Statuary Hall contains life size statues of famous citizens that have been given by individual states. Medical missionary Marcus Whitman stands big as life, holding a Bible. Another statue is of missionary Junipero Serra, who founded the missions of Los Angeles, San Francisco, Montery and San Diego. Illinois sent a statue of Francis Willard, an associate of the evangelist Dwight L. Moody. 






  • Inscribed on the walls of the Library of Congress are quotes honoring the study of art, the wall is etched with "Nature is the art of God." A quote honoring Science says, "The heavens declare the glory of God." An inspiration honoring religion is Micah 6:8, "What doth the Lord require of thee but to do justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God."






  • On a wall in the Jefferson Memorial we read, "God who gave us life gave us liberty. Can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of people that these liberties are a gift from God? That they are not to be violated without His wrath? Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice cannot sleep forever."






  • As you climb the steps inside the Washington Monument you will notice stones with inscriptions on them. Some of them are, "Search the Scriptures" – "Train up a child in the way he should go and when he is old he will not depart from it" – "The memory of the just is blessed" – "Holiness to the Lord" – and the top which says "Praise be to God!" 






  • Inscribed on the north wall of the Lincoln Memorial is the Presidents second inaugural address. Lincoln feared that God would not be satisfied until every drop of blood drawn by the lash is repaid by another drop of blood drawn by the sword.









  • Are these inscriptions just empty words, nostalgic sayings that no longer describe the ideals of our nation's government? Consider the message of another inscription, this one at the base of a large statute entitled "Heritage," which is outside the main entrance of the National Archives. It reads: "The heritage of the past is the seed that brings forth the harvest of the future."
     
    No seed flourishes if it is not cultivated. 

    These facts of our national history, quotations, monuments, paintings, and inscriptions shout through the generations that the highest values of these United States are firmly founded in the God of truth and the Christian faith.
     
    For more detailed additional information we direct you to Christianity and the Constitution by John Eidsmoe, published by Baker Book House, Grand Rapids, Michigan. 49516
    Whatever happened to the 56 men who signed the Declaration of Independence? Click here to find out.

    ~~~~~~~

    The Plymouth community that became The Dominion of New England and eventually roughly comprised the start of what would be the State of Massachusetts did not survive and succeed in part because it incorporated some elements of socialism and it also incorporated religion as a mandate of government rather than a right.  Perhaps this is a very simple way of viewing the Pilgrims but they did help begin our nation and also served as a lesson learned when we became the United States of America.   We would not have a national religion nor would we be a socialist state.

    Now Humanism is the national religion taught in the government schools and Socialism is the philosophy that drives this Obama Administration.   Now is the time that all good men and women and teenagers alike decide whether they will allow this to continue or whether they will work to return this country to the principles of small government, religious freedom, personal freedom, and capitalism as the means by which any and all may be free to pursue life, liberty and happiness.  Can we make an effort to take every attack on our Constitution as a call to action and be willing to work to restore those wonderful ideals that our Founding Fathers passed on to us, the ideals that Ronald Reagan revived and that are under attack every day?

    16 comments:

    Anonymous said...

    In the previous comment thread you said:

    The slavery practiced in the 18th and 19th Century South and many other colonies was wrong and it was Christians who led the fight to stop the practice.

    Then in this post you talk about founding fathers being christian...what about George Washington? He owned slaves. According to your post he is a christian. It seems like GW had a deeply flawed understanding of christianity, no? Even if it was christians who led the fight to stop slavery, wasn't it also christians (who you say make up the overwhelming majority of early americans) who propagated the practice? If you want to argue america was founded as a christian nation, don't pretend like some of the atrocities committed by early america were done by a christian nation.

    You also said this in your last post: ...the Constitution was based on the Bible more than any other document or source...

    And still, where are the direct reflections of biblical principles within the constitution? I'm not trying to argue that the bible didn't influence people's ways of thinking, but looking at the constitution and the ideas within it that define it, the major direct influences are more Locke, Montesquieu. English Bill of rights, Blackstone, Greek democracy,...than the bible.

    lava

    radar said...

    Lava,

    You refuse to even do a tiny bit of research to comprehend what slavery was in the Bible versus what it was in the Colonies.

    The percentages of quotes from people like Blackstone were dwarfed by the Biblical references. The Bible was the primary source of study by the Founding Fathers. Montesquieu, Blackstone and Locke come after.

    You also fail to see that the English Bill of Rights was a result of Christian influences in England.

    Christians led the way to bring literacy to the common man. They invented modern science. Christians led the formation of the United States. All facts. Remember what the Nuremberg Press was making?

    When you look at slavery during colonial times from your comfortable 21st Century lounge chair and pass judgment on George Washington? Is it possible Lava thinks himself a more moral man than Washington?

    Atrocities? Lava, you really need to do more study on American history. Some of the Indian tribes living on the North American continent were brutal savages who made the most-caricatured Southrons of the 19th Century look benevolent. I do not thing the Colonists practiced cannibalism...A couple of the Iroquois tribes were exceedingly treacherous to other tribes as well as Colonists.

    On the other hand, most relationships between Indian and settler were cordial in Colonial times. It was later on, when "Manifest Destiny" became an opiate to many politicians that the USA shamefully misused and abused Indian nations.

    radar said...

    The "Trail of Tears" included one of my ancestors, a Cherokee woman who broke off North and married a white man in Kentucky and eventually produce offspring that included one of my great-greats. She was famed for fighting off a band of Indians who sought to break into her home while the husband had gone to the city for the winter to work for money to pay for seed and supplies.

    Slaves in the colonies included many indentured servants who gave a few years of their lives to pay off debts or even just to come across the pond to be here and gain freedom after their time was settled. But soon slave-traders began taking on Africans sold by other Africans to be lifetime slaves sold as property to primarily the South, which was building an agriculture-based economy. The Southern States were selling Cotton to Europe and especially to England, while the American North sought to impose tariffs and embargoes to get those goods for themselves at reduced rates. This was the seed that grew into the Civil War, slavery was a secondary issue. The first fight was over State's rights and the second was economic. Slavery was a third-place issue actually, but made for nice headlines when Abraham Lincoln decided to ignore the Constitution.

    Lincoln saved the Union but also began its ruin by making the USA more centrally governed. Lincoln freed the slaves, though, and that kept at least two more generations from being held against their will. Some slave-owners treated them like employees or even like relatives but for every gentleman there was a blackguard who would rape and torment his chattel. This was 19th Century behavior, not 18th.

    When the Colonies became the States, the idea of someone torturing his slaves would have been roundly despised and such behavior may well have caused a man to be flogged himself. As it happens, Northerners who did have slaves soon freed them and only in the South did the practice persist.

    By the late 19th Century most people had adjusted to the idea that the Black man was now free. Unfortunately Darwin and Galton came along and promoted evolution and eugenics and soon the treatment of the "Coloreds" in the South especially became almost as heinous as it had been in the 1850's and 60's. The idea of races as evolved and the preeminence of the White man gave rise to Jim Crow laws and Eugenics organizations.

    The great evil of Darwinism was to bring about a scientific excuse for racial hatreds as well as free rein to sexual and other fleshly urges. Our society has become a tug-of-war between Christianity and Hedonism, with so-called "science" aka Scientism pulling on the Hedonist side. The fantastic ignorance of propagandized Darwinist devotees would amuse me if it were not so tragic. You who do not think critically and swallow the Darwin Dogma whole are living in a chimera and thinking it a dream!

    radar said...

    In order to excuse Darwinism, the Darwinist must try to attack both the Bible and the Founding Fathers with the brickbat of ignorance. Time and time again I see comments that show little understanding of scripture or history. I suppose there must be a few websites hosted by Darwinists that list a few magic questions or charges to bring against Christianity because the same things come up time and again, always from ignorance and a supposed higher moral ground.

    Morality comes from Biblical Law or it comes from a commonly agreed-upon set of human standards. However, the Judeo-Christian moral ethic does not reflect Darwinist ideas at all. Morality from the Bible adores God and respects the rights of individuals while protecting them from themselves.

    Darwinist morality would involve "if it feels good, do it" and "As long as you can get away with it." We don't see the Founding Fathers coming from that direction. But from a Darwinist perspective? Jeff Dahmer was simply being a superior being ruling over his environment. Darwinism cannot condemn his actions without hypocrisy. You who shot, killed and stuffed Aborigines to put in museums want to criticize George Washington? Ha!

    Darwinism is anti-morality. It is all about the bigger and stronger ruling over the weaker. It is Hitler and Stalin and Mao and Pol Pot. The Ubermensch is the actual aim of the philosophy of Darwinism. That philosophy is used to explain all things. Of course, the beginnings all involve *poof* because Darwinism does not acknowledge a Creator and has no explanation for the beginnings of anything.

    christian soldier said...

    Enjoyed reading all of the recent posts-

    Carol-CS

    Chaos Engineer said...

    When you look at slavery during colonial times from your comfortable 21st Century lounge chair and pass judgment on George Washington? Is it possible Lava thinks himself a more moral man than Washington?

    Of course Lava is a more moral man than Washington! Unless you have evidence that Lava has committed a crime that's even more horrific than serial slaveholding, in which case I'll urge you to take that evidence straight to the police.

    I can't believe that you, a moral absolutist, are trying to defend Washington! Is it just because Washington claimed to be a Christian? (In that case, would you still be defending Washington if he'd opposed slavery but supported gay marriage?)

    Of course, as a moral relativist, I can say that Washington needs to be judged in the context of his times. It's easy to rationalize a crime when you're living in a society where that crime is widely committed and supported. So I can condemn Washington for not being able to reject all the faults of the corrupt culture he was born into, but at the same time I can praise him for the ways he managed to rise above that culture and say that he was probably an OK person overall.

    radar said...

    It appears that Lava is not a Christian and therefore has no relationship with God. It would be very hard for him to be a more moral man than George Washington and the idea that you would assume that he is shows great ignorance on your part.

    Washington inherited slaves from his father upon becoming the owner of his Mt. Vernon farms. Although he owned them, he began pushing legislation that put an end to the practice. He quit selling them to avoid breaking up families. He eventually decided slavery was wrong and wrote them into his will as they were to be freed upon his death. It was generally known he was more kind to his slaves than the typical slave owner.

    In fact, Washington's will included pensions for many of the older slaves he ordered freed. In lieu of the times, he was a forward-thinking man who was born into a society where slaves were accepted and as he grew older he became much less enamored with slavery until he decided it was plain wrong.

    Because of Washington, the Northwest Territories banned slavery and thus the Northern half of the USA's expansion became free states eventually rather than slave states. The South wanted to expand West with slaves which was a part of the genesis of the Civil War (although not the primary one).

    Washington used his own money to pay soldiers when the young States could not do so. He endured the hardships of his men, refusing to take the easy way out and go back home to winter in comfort while his men toughed it out, no, he stayed with the troops. Washington refused to take on the role of King of America and was a prime force in established a Republic rather than a new monarchy.

    In short, George Washington was born into a Colonial world with many cultural aspects we would think odd or wrong today. Over time his personal moral compass led him to bring about changes to the entire culture! You can be sure that his care for both slaves and soldiers and his eventual support of freedom for slaves had a big impact. We can be thankful he refused to take a crown.

    On the other hand, he would be shocked at the immorality people today tend to take for granted. Widespread sexual sins, disregard and even hatred towards God, lewd clothing and course language. Widespread atheism and hedonism. I study George Washington and see a man who improved his surroundings and even his entire nation, not to mention his vital part in forming said nation.

    You really want to tell me some guy named Lava is morally superior to such a man?

    Anonymous said...

    My main two points remain unaddressed:

    (1) lack of direct reflections of biblical principles within the constitution ("...the Constitution was based on the Bible more than any other document or source...").

    (2) if america was founded as, and still is, a christian nation, you have to accept the good with the bad. America has done some very un-christian things in its existence.

    I never claimed to be more moral than GW. This is just a strawman argument used to divert the attention of the reader from two points which radar can't address.

    lava

    radar said...

    (1) lack of direct reflections of biblical principles within the constitution ("...the Constitution was based on the Bible more than any other document or source...").

    Answer - the commenter did not read the article or the links used for attribution or he would not make this assertion. The article and the linked source assert that the Bible was the primary source used by the Founders.

    (2) if america was founded as, and still is, a christian nation, you have to accept the good with the bad. America has done some very un-christian things in its existence.

    That America was founded on Christian principles does not guarantee good behavior by its citizens. But the most reprehensible actions were taken by men who were anti-Christian in philosophy, such as Woodrow Wilson or wore the label without being the actual animal, like Jimmy Carter.

    Now we have a socialist in the White House and his administration and the actions of other nanny-staters like Pelosi and Clinton and FDR and etc. have turned the USA on its ear. We were founded on the proposition that all men were created equal and endowed by God with inalienable rights. It took quite some time for those rights to be given to women and people of color and those who did not own property, but it happened.

    Now the right to pursue happiness and success is being replaced with the "right" to be given things by the State. This is anti-Constitution and will bring on a dystopian society.

    Chaos Engineer said...

    It appears that Lava is not a Christian and therefore has no relationship with God.

    Didn't you mean to say, "...not a Christian, a Jew, or a Mormon, and therefore has no relationship with God."?

    On George Washington:

    It was generally known he was more kind to his slaves than the typical slave owner.

    Are you sure that you're a moral absolutist? Usually moral absolutes don't think "Other people are even worse" is an excuse for bad behavior.

    radar said...

    Some people have trouble with the English language, apparently.

    Anonymous said...

    Answer - the commenter did not read the article or the links used for attribution or he would not make this assertion. The article and the linked source assert that the Bible was the primary source used by the Founders.

    I read the articles and links you've posted. If it is clear (the point being: "...the Constitution was based on the Bible more than any other document or source...") then it should be easy for you to answer: WHERE ARE DIRECT REFLECTIONS OF BIBLICAL IDEAS FOUND WITHIN THE CONSTITUTION? You can't answer this.

    And remember, I'm not trying to say many early american's weren't christians--- they were. Posting more quotes from early americans isn't an answer to this.

    lava

    radar said...

    Truly I cannot fathom your lack of perception? The article I posted with all the quotes from the Founding Fathers, the research done that produced the linked article and then you say I cannot answer? I have answered quite clearly, the question is why is it you cannot comprehend it?

    To quote the Founders when they declared Independence and began to form the new nation:

    "When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness..."


    The Founders made it clear that they were forming a "...new Government, laying its foundation on such principles..." Those principles were stated clearly as resting upon the foundation that God created man and gave man inherent rights and that the new government would be built based on these principles. Furthermore, research shows us that the documents they studied and upon which they depended to help them write the Constitution were first the Bible and then Montesquieu, Blackstone and Locke and that these three men often referenced scripture in their works.

    Quoting David Barton: "The individual who was cited most often in the writings of the Founding Era was political philosopher Charles Montesquieu, with 8.3 percent of the quotes being taken from his writings. Legal scholar William Blackstone was next, with 7.9 percent of the quotes; and political philosopher and theologian John Locke was third, with 2.9 percent. These were the three most frequently-cited individuals during the Founding Era, but the single most-cited source was the Bible, with 34 percent of the quotes coming from the Scriptures.

    Significantly, that percentage is even higher when the source of the ideas used by individuals such as Montesquieu, Blackstone, and Locke are identified and included. Consider, for example, a primary source of Blackstone’s ideas."


    I have led the horse to water and even pushed his head down into the stuff. Whether he chooses to drink or not, the water is obviously there!

    Doug Indeap said...

    1. Okay, radar guy, let's survey the info in that "best all-around" article that so impresses you.

    First, the folks at Alliance for Life Ministries are so truly knowledgeable about our history that they offered as real a notoriously fake quotation attributed to Patrick Henry. https://fakehistory.wordpress.com/2009/06/14/fake-quotations-patrick-henry-on-religionists/ or http://www.religioustolerance.org/badquotes.htm No serious student of our history would pass that old joke off as genuine, but a disciple of Barton, Federer, DeMar, and their ilk might.

    Second, they simply offer a string of contextless quotations--as if that is the way history is understood or the Constitution is interpreted. Hardly. I mean really, if this wasn't a serious subject, this amateurish stab at historical or legal scholarship would be laughable.

    Third, while the religious views of various founders are subjects of some uncertainty and controversy, it is safe to say that many founders were Christian of one sort or another and held views of the sort reflected in the list of quotations regarding religion. In assessing the nature of our government, though, care should be taken to distinguish between society and government and not to make too much of various founders’ individual religious beliefs. Their individual beliefs, while informative, are largely beside the point. Whatever their religions, they drafted a Constitution that establishes a secular government and separates it from religion as noted earlier. This is entirely consistent with the fact that some founders professed their religiosity and even their desire that Christianity remain the dominant religious influence in American society. Why? Because religious people who would like to see their religion flourish in society may well believe that separating religion and government will serve that end and, thus, in founding a government they may well intend to keep it separate from religion. It is entirely possible for thoroughly religious folk to found a secular government and keep it separate from religion. That, indeed, is just what the founders did.

    Separation of church and state is a bedrock principle of our Constitution much like the principles of separation of powers and checks and balances. In the Constitution, the founders did not simply say in so many words that there should be separation of powers and checks and balances; rather, they actually separated the powers of government among three branches and established checks and balances. Similarly, they did not merely say there should be separation of church and state; rather, they actually separated them by (1) establishing a secular government on the power of "We the people" (not a deity), (2) saying nothing to connect that government to god(s) or religion, (3) saying nothing to give that government power over matters of god(s) or religion, and (4), indeed, saying nothing substantive about god(s) or religion at all except in a provision precluding any religious test for public office. Given the norms of the day, the founders' avoidance of any expression in the Constitution suggesting that the government is somehow based on any religious belief was quite a remarkable and plainly intentional choice. They later buttressed this separation of government and religion with the First Amendment, which constrains the government from undertaking to establish religion or prohibit individuals from freely exercising their religions. The basic principle, thus, rests on much more than just the First Amendment.

    Doug Indeap said...

    2. Fourth, many versions of the Congress-Bible story have circulated over the years; they are among Barton's favorite lies. Contrary to the brief version the brains at the Alliance offer, the Continental Congress did not approve the importation of any Bibles. Rather, as part of its efforts to deal with price gouging for many products, including Bibles, in short supply owing to the war, a committee considered a request to recommend that Congress import types and paper thereby enabling it to regulate the selling price of Bibles. That idea was dropped, and the committee recommended instead that Congress order the committee to import 20,000 Bibles from countries other than England. Congress did indeed, by a 7-6 vote, pass a motion to take up the committee's recommendation. That, though, was not a motion to pass a resolution actually approving the committee's recommendation or authorizing the importation of Bibles. That required yet another motion, which was made, but consideration of it was postponed, and the motion was never again raised. See http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?ammem/hlaw:@field%28DOCID+@lit%28jc00897%29%29: Congress never authorized the importation of Bibles, and no such Bibles were imported.

    Fifth, pointing to architectural displays to suggest our constitutional government is based on Christianity? Really? What would you make of the fact that Moses is depicted in the friezes in the Supreme Court courtroom as one of a group of 18 important lawgivers: Menes, Hammurabi, Moses, Solomon, Lycurgus, Solon, Draco, Confucius, Augustus, Justinian, Mohammed, Charlemagne, King John, St. Louis, Hugo Grotius, William Blackstone, John Marshall, and Napoleon? Moses is holding blank tablets and is no larger or more prominent than any other lawgiver. http://candst.tripod.com/tnppage/arg8a.htm

    Sixth, that Bible citation notion has been debunked as noted in my comment on your other post.

    Seventh, . . . well, you get the idea. That article is but best all-around hooey.

    radar said...

    Doug Indeap identifies himself as ignorant on this subject when he says the Founders were making an attempt to separate church and state. After he idenfies himself as a troll by declaring that I do not know what I am talking about and then attacks my sources as well.

    You, the reader, can do your own research and I hope you do. But when someone says I have strung a series of unrelated quotations together concerning the founding fathers, he is misleading you. They said so many things on faith and the Bible that it would be hard to do a history of their work on the Constitution without bringing God into the discussion.

    Prayer to the Creator God and belief in Him was a fact of life in the 18th Century. Biblical references are the most common used by the Founders. The next three sources all quoted the Bible in their works. English law was based primarily on the Bible. The men who wrote the Constitution also called for things like national days of prayer. Yes, they were Christians and Theists and a few Deists so not all of them were born-again believers but they all accepted and promoted the Judeo-Christian basis for morality and based our antion upon that.

    You can be a commenter and write pages of comments but you do not make for a good commenter when you make such ignorant statements, especially when you mention a separation of church and state. The Founders did not want a State Church or a Theocracy but they certainly expected a society based on Biblical principles to continue.

    Again, Secular Humanism has become the State Church and therefore we see Christianity and Biblical principles under attack by evil enterprises like ACLU and various lawyers and politicians and media types and entertainers and athletes, elitists who do not live in the "real world" where a few thousand dollars is not a weekend in Vegas, it is the difference between keeping and losing your house.

    The separation of church and state is a canard. Shame on all who depend on that to try to break down the Constitution!