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Monday, July 30, 2012

Three Sisters formation in Australia? Formed by Noahic Flood events. Three follow-up posts and then a finishing coup de grâce!

Creation Ministries International is a ministry and a scientific organization.   The members thereof fully disclose their allegiance to the concept that God created the Universe and all things in it, including the Earth and all basic organisms in sinless perfection.   They assert that the Fall of man in the Garden of Eden led to sin and death and a Universe that is running downhill from energy to entropy.  They believe that the Earth was created by God and the base rocks were likely formed at the origin of the planet, while the sedimentary rock formations around the globe are primarily a result of the Noahic Flood and the dynamic post-Flood era that ushered in an Ice Age and led to secondary formations, layers and alterations to the layers laid down in the Flood itself.   The foundational belief that the Bible is true and the Word of God is inherent to the staff of Creation Ministries International, which would be a normal worldview for a Christian.

Darwinists in general deny that God created the Universe and all things and also deny the Fall of mankind, an historic Adam and Eve and the Noahic Flood.  They specifically claim that all organisms evolved from non-living matter by chance and generally believe that the entire Universe just happened to pop into existence by chance as well.   They adhere to a naturalistic materialistic philosophy and are generally atheists or atheopaths.   There are some who do believe that God created and then used evolution to make life, however, this does not jive with the Bible so those who claim to believe the Bible will eventually have to choose between Darwin and Bible if they intend to live a logical life.   Theistic evolutionists find themselves in both camps and frankly Old Earth Creationists also find themselves in opposition to the Bible in the end.

Science does not belong to either side.    In fact science is agnostic about metaphysical matters, it is man who brings his worldview with him to the lab or the dig.   Naturalists have no claim to science, in fact if anyone does it would be Christians, as it was Christians who devised the scientific method and laid the foundations for modern scientific research and devised most basic scientific disciplines.  

Here I present an article about the Three Sisters formation in Australia by Tas Walker and then present a few links with follow-ups to the original article.   Darwinists use derision, unfounded claims and complete and utter lies in an attempt to falsify the claims presented by Walker and Creation.com aka Creation Ministries International, but Walker patiently and thoroughly refutes their claims as shown by the three links that follow the original article.  Walker also was and is willing to include new information, such as the tree/concretion question.   Tas Walker:


Three Sisters: evidence for Noah's Flood

Getting to know the three sisters reveals more than just natural beauty

Photo by R. Donoghoe
three sisters

Each year, millions of tourists visit Katoomba, a city one hour’s drive west of Sydney, Australia’s biggest city. There they enjoy the spectacular Three Sisters. These ‘ladies’ are not a group of performers, but a huge rock outcrop. Set in a World Heritage Area of the Blue Mountains, the Sisters are now something of an Australian icon.

Near the lookout at Echo Point, the Sisters watch over an impressive valley. On a clear day, Kings Tableland looms in the distance (see panorama, left). Throughout the day, the vista alters as the changing sunlight transforms the magnificent colours of the Three Sisters. At night, their floodlit shape looks stunning against the blackness of the night sky.

Most visitors don’t realize they are looking at compelling evidence for the global Flood described in the Bible.

Figure 1
Figure 1: Many geologists consider the Sydney Basin (pink) is connected to large, long sedimentary basins (lighter pink) to the north. This sedimentary network is over 2,000 km (1,200 miles) long and contains rich deposits of coal and gas, the products of buried vegetation. Overlaying sediments have been omitted from the figure.

The sandstone, of which the Sisters are made, points to huge watery deposition. The valleys and gorges, shaped when the Sisters were carved, are evidence of immense watery erosion. The Biblical global Flood explains this deposition and erosion. Let’s look a bit closer.

It’s not difficult to appreciate that the sandstone covers an immense area. From the lookout, we can see that the same rocks form steep cliffs all around the gorge. Before the magnificent valley was eroded, the sandstone strata covered a large area.

Vast size

But the strata extend much further than we can see from the lookout. From Katoomba they reach 160 km (100 miles) south, 160 km north, and 160 km to the east—an immense rectangular deposit of sediment (see Figure 1).1 Geologists call it the Sydney Basin, the resting place for massive volumes of sediment eroded from the Lachlan Fold Belt to the west, and the New England Fold Belt to the east.

Many geologists consider the Sydney Basin is the southern end of a 250-km (160-mile) wide system extending 2,000 km (1,200 miles) north (Figure 2).2 The immense size of the deposit is evidence for catastrophe—but there’s more.

Deposited catastrophically

We see that the sand in the Three Sisters is deposited in layers. The road cuttings in the area give a better view, or we can examine the overlying Hawkesbury Sandstone that forms steep cliffs around Sydney (Figure 4). Joining the prominent, horizontal layers is a faint, inclined layering called ‘cross bedding.’ This indicates that the sand was deposited by flowing water.

Figure 2
Figure 2: Later, kilometre–thick deposits of sediment and vegetation were dumped on top, concealing the connection between the Sydney Basin and the northern basins. The later–deposited sediments contain abundant water resources in what is called the Great Artesian Basin.

Figure 6 shows how moving water makes a wavy pattern in the sand on the bottom. The water pushes the grains of sand up the back of each sand wave until they reach the top. Then they roll down the front of the sand wave. Thus, the sand waves move forward, forming the pattern of cross bedding. The orientation of the sand waves indicates the direction of flow. The thickness of the cross beds indicates the speed of the water and its depth.3

From the size of the cross beds, geologist Dr Patrick Conaghan, Senior Lecturer at the School of Earth Sciences at Macquarie University, determined the conditions under which the sand was deposited. In 1994 he described a wall of water up to 20 m (65 feet) high and 250 km (150 miles) wide coming down from the north at enormous speed.4 This catastrophic interpretation is consistent with what we would expect during the Biblical Flood.

The sandstone formations are very thick, ranging from 100 m (330 ft) to 200 m (660 ft) or more.1 To accumulate such thick deposits of sand, the water level in the Sydney Basin must have risen continuously. Otherwise, the sand would have been carried through the area to deeper water. Yet, in the thick sandstone formations, there are no indications of extended time breaks between deposition (e.g. inhabited horizons containing preserved fossil communities). Deposition from the fast-flowing water was continuous in an ever-deepening basin.

Artesian
Figure 3: A vertically-exaggerated east–west cross section of these later sediments, which were the last sediments deposited as the floodwaters were rising on the Earth.

Click here for larger view 

The evidence therefore points to huge volumes of sediment being eroded from the continent and carried in a ‘river’ hundreds of kilometres wide and thousands of kilometres long. No river on the face of the Earth today is anywhere near this large. This ‘river’ sorted the sediment into its different sizes, which is why so much sand was deposited in the same place.

Thus the Three Sisters speak of unusual catastrophic deposition, consistent with the global Flood described in the Bible. The sand was deposited as the water level was increasing on the Earth, during the first part of the one-year Flood—the Inundatory stage.5 Some of the sand formations may have been deposited in just a few days.2

Rapid erosion

Photo by Tas Walker
Figure 4
Figure 4
Well after the sediments of the Sydney Basin were deposited, in the second part of the Flood the offshore ocean floor began to sink and the Blue Mountains began to rise. The water then covering Australia began to run off the continent. As it did, it rapidly cut the landscapes. 

At first the water flowed in sheets, shaving flat vast areas of the continent sometimes producing ‘planation’ surfaces. Then, as the flow reduced, the water cut wide valleys like those we see around the Sydney area. As the volume of water continued to decrease, narrower valleys were cut at the edges of plateaus, like those we see from the Three Sisters lookout (Echo Point).

Photo by Tas Walker
Figure 5
Figure 5
When the water had completely receded and the land was dry, large valleys remained where the flow had been. These valleys end abruptly in blind, steep walls. We see waterfalls today at the ends of these valleys, but they are only tiny remnants compared with the flow of water that eroded the valleys (Figure 5). There is no way that such minuscule water flows could have carved the huge valleys. This pattern of erosion is exactly what we would expect during the final phase of the global Flood.

In the late 1700s, these steep cliffs prevented the early settlers of Sydney finding their way through the Blue Mountains to more grazing land. The first explorers followed the rivers, only to be stopped by the steep cul-de-sacs at the ends of the valleys. Little did they realize that these obstacles were produced by the drainage of Noah’s floodwater. Then, in 1813, the famous explorers Blaxland, Wentworth, and Lawson found their way using an innovative ridge-top route—by following the eroded remnants of the uplifted plateau.6

What about carbon dating?

One reason people don’t connect the Three Sisters with Noah’s Flood is that the rocks are supposed to be about 230 million years old. At this age they obviously could not have formed in a flood 4,500 years ago. However, there is a problem with the way rocks are dated. Basically, long-age geologists get the dates wrong because they make wrong assumptions about the past. In particular, they ignore the catastrophic effects of Noah’s Flood.

Diagram courtesy Steve Austin, Grand Canyon:onument to catastrophe, ICR
Figure 6
Figure 6
Long-age geologists assume that sedimentary rocks were deposited slowly, e.g. by rivers like those we see on Earth today. With so much sedimentary rock, they imagine that it took millions of years. But catastrophic conditions during Noah’s Flood would have deposited lots of sediment quickly and eliminated the need for millions of years. Evidence of such catastrophic deposition, as we have seen, is preserved in the rocks themselves.

For these rocks, long-age geologists have assigned an age of around 230 million years based on their fossil content and their relative position in the sequence of rock layers in the region. Recently, a creationist geologist measured the carbon-14 content of a piece of wood found in a quarry in the overlying Hawkesbury Sandstone.7 Long-age geologists wouldn’t bother analyzing for carbon-14 because they believe the rock is 230 million years old. All carbon-14 should have disappeared by 50,000 years, at the most. There should be no carbon-14 left. However, the analysis confirmed a small but significant amount of carbon-14 in the wood—clear evidence that the sandstone is less than 50,000 years old. The small level of carbon-14 does not reflect an age, but rather the low concentration of carbon-14 in the atmosphere before the Flood (carbon-14 has been building up since the Flood).

Evidence of Noah’s Flood

The Three Sisters are an Australian tourist icon. They are also evidence of Noah’s Flood. These sandstone monuments display evidence of large-scale catastrophic deposition and immense watery erosion. That is exactly what we would expect from Noah’s Flood. Not only are the Three Sisters an icon of Australia, they are also an icon of the reliability of the Bible.

The phenomenon of vertical fossil tree trunks

Photo by Andrew Taylor
Hawkesbury
Broken tree trunks deposited vertically in thickly bedded sandstone 40 km (25 miles) north of Sydney, overlooking the South Pacific Ocean. Located on the eastern side of ‘Box Head’ in Bouddi National Park, the head forms the northern entrance to the Hawkesbury River.

This sandstone is part of the Gosford Formation. Lying under the Hawkesbury Sandstone, it is approximately equivalent to the formation comprising the Three Sisters, over 100 km (60 miles) west. Excellent cross bedding is obvious in the layers above the logs.

The blocky appearance of the deposit and the cross bedding point to deposition from deep, fast-flowing water.

The thickness of the deposit indicates that the water was continually deepening as the sand was being deposited.

These logs did not grow here but were washed into place.

The trunks are broken with no sign of soil or roots. They testify to the violent forces which uprooted and smashed an ancient forest, sorting roots and trunks from leaves and branches.

The leaves and branches were deposited in other strata of the Sydney Basin. They form the coal measures that are now mined for power generation.

Update 15 September 2008: Since writing this report I have been able to inspect close up these vertical objects at Box Head and discuss their identification with others. I described them here as being vertical logs but on closer inspection in the field they seem instead to be unusual iron concretions. There are numerous other vertical concretions of various shapes in the sandstone in that area. Even as iron concretions these objects are unusual in their shape and orientation.

Although these particular objects do not now appear to be tree trunks, it does not alter the fact that these sandstone deposits comprising the cliffs and the wave platform were deposited very quickly over a huge area pointing to the fact that the Sydney basin was formed by a large watery catastrophe, consistent with Noah’s Flood.

Related articles

References

  1. Jones, D.C. and Clark, N.R. (Eds.), Geology of the Penrith 1:100,000 Sheet 9030, New South Wales Geological Survey, Sydney, 1991. Return to text.
  2. Allen, D., Sediment transport and the Genesis Flood—Case studies including the Hawkesbury Sandstone, Sydney, CEN Tech. J. 10(3):358–378, 1996. Return to text.
  3. Austin, S.A. (Ed.), Grand Canyon: Monument to Catastrophe, Institute for Creation Research, California, pp. 33–35, 1994. Return to text.
  4. Woodford, J., Rock doctor catches up with our prehistoric surf, The Sydney Morning Herald 30 April, 1994, p. 2. For more detail, see: Conaghan, P.J., The Hawkesbury Sandstone: gross characteristics and depositional environment, Bulletin, Geological Survey of New South Wales 26:188–253, 1980. Return to text.
  5. Walker, T.B., A Biblical geologic model, In: Walsh, R.E. (Ed.), Proceedings of The Third International Conference on Creationism, Creation Science Fellowship, Pittsburgh, pp. 581–592, 1994; www.uq.net.au/~zztbwalk. Return to text.
  6. Info Blue Mountains History Plaza, info.mountains.net.au/history/crossing_3ex.htm 29 November 2002. Return to text.
  7. Snelling, A.A., Dating dilemma: fossil wood in ‘ancient’ sandstone, Creation 21(3):39–41, 1999. Return to text.





SEE ALSO 

The Three Sisters: strong evidence for Noah’s Flood in Australia

Shifting sands

Hawkesbury Sandstone deposited from a wall of water?

Interestingly, there is another Three Sisters formation that had a collapse in 2009 that took the top off of the middle "Sister." Do you catch the language in the age.com au article that unconsciously supports the creationist position?  I'll bold the words so you do not miss them!

Sister, not apostle, crumbles into sea

September 28, 2009

Thomas Hunter


Dear sister ... one of the rock formations known as the 'Three Sisters' collapsed into the sea (top). Bottom: the rock before its collapse.
Dear sister ... one of the rock formations known as the 'Three Sisters' collapsed into the sea (top). Bottom: the rock before its collapse. 

One of the Twelve Apostles has risen again. The Great Ocean Road rock formation that collapsed into the sea last week was not one of the famous towers, but a sister stack.

One of the 'Three Sisters' sea stacks crumbled into the ocean on a weekend of high winds and punishing seas.

It was earlier thought the rock formation which collapsed was one of the Twelve Apostles, but a Parks Victoria spokesperson confirmed it was one of three smaller pillars sitting behind an outcropping known as the Razorback.

"They are not part of the Apostles," said Port Campbell National Park ranger Natasha Johnson.

"The are located east of the Razorback visitors' site which is in the Loch Ard Gorge precinct. It was a fairly small rock stack compared to the Twelve Apostles or some of the other rock stacks in the area.

"There have been big swells over the past few months and we've also had quite a lot of heavy rain, and that has possibly contributed to the collapse.
"But being limestone, it erodes very quickly compared to other hard rocks like granite. It obviously had quite a few weaker areas and that lead to the collapse." 

Ms Johnson said the Southern Ocean soft limestone cliffs are a work-in-progress, with nature constantly redefining the shape of the coastline. 

Earlier this month, a large section of cliff fell into the sea about a kilometre from the lookout at the Twelve Apostles. In June this year, the Island Archway near Loch Ard Gorge collapsed leaving two stone pillars jutting from the ocean. In 2005, the Twelve Apostles were reduced to eight when a large stack crumbled into the sea.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So there is a logical disconnect when Darwinists try to proclaim that the rocks that form(ed) formations such as the Three Sisters and the Twelve Apostles are in the vicinity of 230 millions years old and yet at the same time point out the transitory nature of limestone and sandstone and similar rocks.  You cannot have it both ways.   You cannot claim that rock layers are incredibly ancient and then also assert that they erode very quickly.   The AGE writer makes two statements about sedimentary rocks which are generally true, gleaned from Port Campbell National Park ranger Natasha Johnson.

"..."But being limestone, it erodes very quickly compared to other hard rocks like granite."
and
"...Southern Ocean soft limestone cliffs are a work-in-progress, with nature constantly redefining the shape of the coastline. "

The coastal Three Sisters, having been formed within the last approximately 4300 years, were and are vulnerable to collapse and/or erosion because they are relatively recent compared to the long ages claimed by Darwinists.   The more famous Three Sisters formation discussed by Tas Walker is well away from the ocean and therefore will not face such constant weathering.   Nevertheless sedimentary rocks were formed by water and by water they can rather quickly erode.   Now for the coup de grâce!


Collapsed Apostle tells a story

5 July 2005

Geologist Dr Tasman Walker of Creation Ministries International said that the famous ‘Twelve Apostles’ off the coast of Victoria, Australia have eroded much faster than most people imagine.
Before the collapse
After the collapse
Credit: Parks Victoria
Going, going, gone. Just after 9:18 am, the 50-metre ‘Apostle’ collapsed within seconds leaving a heap of rubble. Jesus’ Apostles indicated the earth was young, and these Apostles do too.

Australians were shocked to learn that one of the ‘Twelve Apostles’ crumpled into the Southern Ocean just after 9 am on Sunday 3 July 2005, leaving just a heap of rubble.
A Sydney family touring the area captured remarkable before-and-after images of the disintegrated rock formation.

The 50-metre-high sea stack, second from the viewing platform, began to shimmer and collapsed into a heap within seconds.
A Parks Victoria spokesperson said she was shocked by the collapse.

‘You think these structures are going to last for a while and certainly not [think you’ll] actually see one collapse in your lifetime.’

According to geologist Walker, the reaction to the collapse illustrates how the public have been conditioned with geological ideas that do not match reality.








‘We are told that The Apostles started to form up to 20 million years ago when erosion gradually attacked the limestone cliffs of Port Campbell. No wonder everyone is surprised when one collapses. 

‘But there was a similar collapse in 1990 when London Bridge, a natural rock arch to one of the stacks, gave way not long after people walked over it. Two people had to be rescued by helicopter. 

‘About 10 years ago in Western Australia nine people were killed when similar limestone strata collapsed onto the beach during an inter-school surfing competition. 

‘The stacks are not millions of years old. The limestone strata were deposited during Noah’s Flood, as the floodwaters flowed from the emerging Australian continent.

‘That was just four and a half thousand years ago.’
‘Most geologists do not appreciate the geological effects of Noah’s Flood,’ says Walker. ‘If they did, people would be more aware of geological hazards, and not think that the rocks are a permanent feature of the landscape.’

The Twelve Apostles are icons of the Australian landscape. They are featured around the world as a symbol of the Commonwealth Games being hosted in Melbourne in 2006.

The changed landscape means the many photos and tourist promotions may have to be re-shot.

Before the collapse, the Twelve Apostles numbered nine, but now they are only eight.

Alex Green, the local Parks Victoria ranger said ‘It was one of the bigger [stacks] and integral to what used to be the view.’

It was almost like a building being demolished straight down on itself. The debris has turned the ocean muddy brown but the rubble is expected to vanish within weeks.

Geologist Walker said, ‘These eroding Apostles have a similar message to the original Apostles of Jesus’ time, one concerned with the authority and reliability of God’s Word. This world is young, just as the Bible records.’

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We have collected sedimentary rocks from all over North America and have several of them incorporated into gardens around our home.   I have observed the workings of temperature, sun and precipitation upon the rocks we've left outside.   Mudstone degrades quickly but sandstone and limestone begin to show signs of weathering as well.   There are gradients to limestone, with some being harder than others.   Limestone generally cuts easily enough to use in buildings that are expected to stand for decades and perhaps centuries but it can and will wear, as engineers well know.   The effects of wind and some pollutants do degrade buildings and monuments made of limestone because sedimentary rocks are simply not as hard as bedrock, being made during by the Flood event less than 4500 years ago.

Both the facts behind the sedimentary rock layers of Australia and landmarks like the Twelve Apostles and the two differing Three Sisters specifically support formation by the Noahic Flood and post-Flood era rather than a result of millions of years of uniformitarian processes.   That they wear away quickly should not be a surprise to Christian creationists because we understand how and when they were made.

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