Ezekiel 29 - Bible prophecy
Ezekiel 29:8-14-
" 'Therefore this is what the Sovereign LORD says: I will bring a sword against you and kill your men and their animals. Egypt will become a desolate wasteland. Then they will know that I am the LORD.
" 'Because you said, "The Nile is mine; I made it," therefore I am against you and against your streams, and I will make the land of Egypt a ruin and a desolate waste from Migdol to Aswan, as far as the border of Cush. No foot of man or animal will pass through it; no one will live there for forty years. I will make the land of Egypt desolate among devastated lands, and her cities will lie desolate forty years among ruined cities. And I will disperse the Egyptians among the nations andscatter them through the countries.
" 'Yet this is what the Sovereign LORD says: At the end of forty years I will gather the Egyptians from the nations where they were scattered. I will bring them back from captivity and return them to Upper Egypt, the land of their ancestry. There they will be a lowly kingdom."
Commenters have used this passage as "proof" that Bible prophecy is not accurate and challenged me to disagree with them evidentially.
Prophecy and visions in the Bible
First, it is important to understand how prophecy works in the Bible. God would use poetic language full of figures of speech when making prophetic utterances. For instance, when God declares that stars will fall to the earth, we know quite well that just one star would burn the earth to a crisp before it ever managed to "fall" on us. I also mentioned that God doesn't actually "walk" on the "wings of the wind", but rather this is poetic language. We use such language ourselves: my heart is breaking (no, it's not) or, I would move heaven and earth (you'd do good moving a 200 pound boulder, dude!).
Such language is not just used in the Old Testament, but also in the prophetic portions of the New Testament such as Revelation:
Revelation 6:14 - "Then the sky receded as a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved out of its place. "
Like so often happens in prophecies, they come to the writer in the form of a symbolic vision, just as this passage in Revelation, in which John is relating a vision given him while on the Isle of Patmos. The reader is to understand that the sky isn't going to actually roll up, etc. but that this rather symbolizes a complete upheaval and drastic change. Reading the entire book of Revelation reveals the nature of the changes and the who, what, when, where, why and hows of it all.
(The Bible devotes an entire chapter to the interpretation of two specific prophetic dreams, in Genesis chapter forty. Joseph listens as the head butler and baker to the pharoah relate troubling, prophetic dreams and then interprets them.)
The Book of Ezekiel begins with the author describing the beginning of a vision given him by God. The reader then understands that the language will be poetic and often the vision will be symbolic in nature. Yet the meanings are quite clear when you read Ezekiel 29. Egypt's Pharaoh is going to be conquered and the land emptied.
History - the stories begin to fade away
Second, as they always say, history is written by the victor. It is also true that the farther away we get from an event, the more our history becomes a form of shorthand. This is also why people were dogmatically declaring that Egypt was not conquered and made uninhabitable and that the Bible was obviously wrong, because modern historians have paid little or no attention to the event that took place in approximately 571 BC. But reliable historical documentation certainly exists and we will now go there.
The Annals of the World
James Ussher finished this massive volume in 1658 (English version. The Latin version was produced 1650-4.) He had at his disposal myriad sources. The publisher now says of this work:
"Considered not only a classic work of literature, but also esteemed for its preciseness and accuracy, The Annals of the World has not been published in the English language since the 17th century. Almost completely inaccessible to the public for 300 years, this book is a virtual historical encyclopedia with information and footnotes to history that otherwise would have been lost forever. Covering history from the beginning through the first century A.D., Ussher relates both famous accounts and little known events in the lives of the famous and infamous including pharaohs, Caesars, kings, conquerors, thieves, pirates, and murderers. He tells of the rise and fall of great and not-so-great nations and gives accounts of the events that shaped the world. (960 pages - hardbound)"
(Larry Pierce, and Marion Pierce presided over the 2003-4 revision and re-release into English of this tome. They had help, but I have to say that this was a staggering undertaking and I remain in awe of their dedication!)
Ussher combed through the historical accounts of Josephus, Herodotus, Xenophon, Plutarch and hundreds of others, his bibliography being a veritable hall of fame of historians now passed. He researched in order to produce the best possible dates for the events listed. Yes, he did use the Bible as one of his sources and to this day archaeologists use the Bible in their research, as a handbook to help find ruins and identify newly discovered cultures. Ussher included over twelve thousand footnotes and over two thousand quotes from the Bible and Apocrypha as part of his work.
In any event, here is what Ussher says about this portion of Ezekiel, noting that Jeremiah made a similar prophecy concerning the same coming event:
3433 AM, 4143 JP, 571 BC
"(reference number 881) After Nebuchadnezzar conquered Egypt from Syrene to the very ends of the land, he made havock of the Egyptians and of the Jews who lived there. Some he killed and the rest he led away into captivity, in accordance with Jeremiah's prophecies. (Jer 43:1-44:30 46:1-28 Eze 29 1-31:18)
Pharoahhophra, or Apries, was forced to retreat into the country of Thebes. It seems that Nebuchadnezzar made Amasis his viceroy over all Egypt. Though Herodotus did not know of this, Scaliger observed in his notes Ad Fragmenta:
"The priests of Egypt told Herodotus of such things as he desired to know. They spoke only of things that glorified their country, but concealed the rest. This showed their cowardice and slavery, by concealing the payment of tribute they made to the Chaldeans."
Thus was the first portion of the prophecy fulfilled. The Babylonians conquered the land and either killed or took captive all the inhabitants. It was typical, not just of Nebuchadnezzar, but of many of the empires of this time frame that, when conquering a land, they would empty it of people and domesticated animals. Many would be killed and many taken into captivity as slaves or, in the case of the best candidates, trained and groomed to be assimilated into the victor's society. This is what happened to Daniel, by the way, who was taken as a youth to become part of the Court and eventually came to be the right hand man of the King himself, a defacto ruler over all of the empire. But that's another subject.
For now, we then go forward forty years in the Annals and find this entry:
3473 AM, 4183 JP, 531 BC
"(reference 958) Amasis, it seems, defected from Cyrus. The people of Egypt, who had previously been carried away by Nebuchadnezzar, were now being sent back again by Cyrus into their own country, after forty years in exile. They returned to their own kingdom toward the end of the life of Amasis. Egypt was once again a kingdom, very old and ancient, it is true, but the least significant of all of them and no longer of much use to any other country. (Eze 29:11-16 Jer 46:26) (Xenophon, Cyropedia 1.8. c.8.s.1.6:439) Xenophon, in the prologue to his whole work, stated that Cyrus had Egypt in his possession, (Xenophon, Cyropedia 1.1.c.1.s.4.5:7) while all authors agree that it was later subdued by his son Cambyses. Hence, we conclude that in the intervening time they enjoyed their freedom."
Thus, Ussher records the forty year exile did take place, as predicted in both Ezekiel and Jeremiah. Forty years would be a pretty average lifespan for people of this time so that, when a nation would take another into captivity for forty or more years they would be putting a practical end to the government and leaders of that nation. Peoples taken into captivity in such a manner would later return having been stamped with the culture of their captors. Egyptians would go on being Egyptians, but with a great deal of Babylonian influences and the loss of a tremendous amount of historical documentation of their culture and times.
The Jews were unique in that they were so dedicated to the preservation of their scriptures, genealogies and culture that even being taken into captivity on more than one occasion was not enough to significantly alter their inherent "Jewishness" or obliterate the scriptures.
I assert that the prophetic predictions of Ezekiel concerning Egypt did in fact occur and that the Bible did predict what was going to happen and for how long.
~~~~~~~
Concerning Genesis and the authorship of the Pentateuch: Just because there was an addendum added concerning the death of Moses doesn't mean he didn't write the rest of the books. But some have written concerning dual accounts of events in Genesis and when I addressed one of them, they asked about the rest. Okay, get specific. What story in particular do you wish to investigate? I await responses.
Note that next post we will go back to the creation-evolution debate with what I think will be the start of a lively discussion. Cheers!
" 'Therefore this is what the Sovereign LORD says: I will bring a sword against you and kill your men and their animals. Egypt will become a desolate wasteland. Then they will know that I am the LORD.
" 'Because you said, "The Nile is mine; I made it," therefore I am against you and against your streams, and I will make the land of Egypt a ruin and a desolate waste from Migdol to Aswan, as far as the border of Cush. No foot of man or animal will pass through it; no one will live there for forty years. I will make the land of Egypt desolate among devastated lands, and her cities will lie desolate forty years among ruined cities. And I will disperse the Egyptians among the nations andscatter them through the countries.
" 'Yet this is what the Sovereign LORD says: At the end of forty years I will gather the Egyptians from the nations where they were scattered. I will bring them back from captivity and return them to Upper Egypt, the land of their ancestry. There they will be a lowly kingdom."
Commenters have used this passage as "proof" that Bible prophecy is not accurate and challenged me to disagree with them evidentially.
Prophecy and visions in the Bible
First, it is important to understand how prophecy works in the Bible. God would use poetic language full of figures of speech when making prophetic utterances. For instance, when God declares that stars will fall to the earth, we know quite well that just one star would burn the earth to a crisp before it ever managed to "fall" on us. I also mentioned that God doesn't actually "walk" on the "wings of the wind", but rather this is poetic language. We use such language ourselves: my heart is breaking (no, it's not) or, I would move heaven and earth (you'd do good moving a 200 pound boulder, dude!).
Such language is not just used in the Old Testament, but also in the prophetic portions of the New Testament such as Revelation:
Revelation 6:14 - "Then the sky receded as a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved out of its place. "
Like so often happens in prophecies, they come to the writer in the form of a symbolic vision, just as this passage in Revelation, in which John is relating a vision given him while on the Isle of Patmos. The reader is to understand that the sky isn't going to actually roll up, etc. but that this rather symbolizes a complete upheaval and drastic change. Reading the entire book of Revelation reveals the nature of the changes and the who, what, when, where, why and hows of it all.
(The Bible devotes an entire chapter to the interpretation of two specific prophetic dreams, in Genesis chapter forty. Joseph listens as the head butler and baker to the pharoah relate troubling, prophetic dreams and then interprets them.)
The Book of Ezekiel begins with the author describing the beginning of a vision given him by God. The reader then understands that the language will be poetic and often the vision will be symbolic in nature. Yet the meanings are quite clear when you read Ezekiel 29. Egypt's Pharaoh is going to be conquered and the land emptied.
History - the stories begin to fade away
Second, as they always say, history is written by the victor. It is also true that the farther away we get from an event, the more our history becomes a form of shorthand. This is also why people were dogmatically declaring that Egypt was not conquered and made uninhabitable and that the Bible was obviously wrong, because modern historians have paid little or no attention to the event that took place in approximately 571 BC. But reliable historical documentation certainly exists and we will now go there.
The Annals of the World
James Ussher finished this massive volume in 1658 (English version. The Latin version was produced 1650-4.) He had at his disposal myriad sources. The publisher now says of this work:
"Considered not only a classic work of literature, but also esteemed for its preciseness and accuracy, The Annals of the World has not been published in the English language since the 17th century. Almost completely inaccessible to the public for 300 years, this book is a virtual historical encyclopedia with information and footnotes to history that otherwise would have been lost forever. Covering history from the beginning through the first century A.D., Ussher relates both famous accounts and little known events in the lives of the famous and infamous including pharaohs, Caesars, kings, conquerors, thieves, pirates, and murderers. He tells of the rise and fall of great and not-so-great nations and gives accounts of the events that shaped the world. (960 pages - hardbound)"
(Larry Pierce, and Marion Pierce presided over the 2003-4 revision and re-release into English of this tome. They had help, but I have to say that this was a staggering undertaking and I remain in awe of their dedication!)
Ussher combed through the historical accounts of Josephus, Herodotus, Xenophon, Plutarch and hundreds of others, his bibliography being a veritable hall of fame of historians now passed. He researched in order to produce the best possible dates for the events listed. Yes, he did use the Bible as one of his sources and to this day archaeologists use the Bible in their research, as a handbook to help find ruins and identify newly discovered cultures. Ussher included over twelve thousand footnotes and over two thousand quotes from the Bible and Apocrypha as part of his work.
In any event, here is what Ussher says about this portion of Ezekiel, noting that Jeremiah made a similar prophecy concerning the same coming event:
3433 AM, 4143 JP, 571 BC
"(reference number 881) After Nebuchadnezzar conquered Egypt from Syrene to the very ends of the land, he made havock of the Egyptians and of the Jews who lived there. Some he killed and the rest he led away into captivity, in accordance with Jeremiah's prophecies. (Jer 43:1-44:30 46:1-28 Eze 29 1-31:18)
Pharoahhophra, or Apries, was forced to retreat into the country of Thebes. It seems that Nebuchadnezzar made Amasis his viceroy over all Egypt. Though Herodotus did not know of this, Scaliger observed in his notes Ad Fragmenta:
"The priests of Egypt told Herodotus of such things as he desired to know. They spoke only of things that glorified their country, but concealed the rest. This showed their cowardice and slavery, by concealing the payment of tribute they made to the Chaldeans."
Thus was the first portion of the prophecy fulfilled. The Babylonians conquered the land and either killed or took captive all the inhabitants. It was typical, not just of Nebuchadnezzar, but of many of the empires of this time frame that, when conquering a land, they would empty it of people and domesticated animals. Many would be killed and many taken into captivity as slaves or, in the case of the best candidates, trained and groomed to be assimilated into the victor's society. This is what happened to Daniel, by the way, who was taken as a youth to become part of the Court and eventually came to be the right hand man of the King himself, a defacto ruler over all of the empire. But that's another subject.
For now, we then go forward forty years in the Annals and find this entry:
3473 AM, 4183 JP, 531 BC
"(reference 958) Amasis, it seems, defected from Cyrus. The people of Egypt, who had previously been carried away by Nebuchadnezzar, were now being sent back again by Cyrus into their own country, after forty years in exile. They returned to their own kingdom toward the end of the life of Amasis. Egypt was once again a kingdom, very old and ancient, it is true, but the least significant of all of them and no longer of much use to any other country. (Eze 29:11-16 Jer 46:26) (Xenophon, Cyropedia 1.8. c.8.s.1.6:439) Xenophon, in the prologue to his whole work, stated that Cyrus had Egypt in his possession, (Xenophon, Cyropedia 1.1.c.1.s.4.5:7) while all authors agree that it was later subdued by his son Cambyses. Hence, we conclude that in the intervening time they enjoyed their freedom."
Thus, Ussher records the forty year exile did take place, as predicted in both Ezekiel and Jeremiah. Forty years would be a pretty average lifespan for people of this time so that, when a nation would take another into captivity for forty or more years they would be putting a practical end to the government and leaders of that nation. Peoples taken into captivity in such a manner would later return having been stamped with the culture of their captors. Egyptians would go on being Egyptians, but with a great deal of Babylonian influences and the loss of a tremendous amount of historical documentation of their culture and times.
The Jews were unique in that they were so dedicated to the preservation of their scriptures, genealogies and culture that even being taken into captivity on more than one occasion was not enough to significantly alter their inherent "Jewishness" or obliterate the scriptures.
I assert that the prophetic predictions of Ezekiel concerning Egypt did in fact occur and that the Bible did predict what was going to happen and for how long.
~~~~~~~
Concerning Genesis and the authorship of the Pentateuch: Just because there was an addendum added concerning the death of Moses doesn't mean he didn't write the rest of the books. But some have written concerning dual accounts of events in Genesis and when I addressed one of them, they asked about the rest. Okay, get specific. What story in particular do you wish to investigate? I await responses.
Note that next post we will go back to the creation-evolution debate with what I think will be the start of a lively discussion. Cheers!