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Saturday, March 24, 2012

"We don't discuss Religion or Politics" - NOT! Homosexuality and Christianity discussed.

"I think that their call out to homosexuals is, 'Come to Jesus and he'll make you straight,' whereas the Bible doesn't promise that...The Bible doesn't promise that our temptations will end. Actually, it promises that temptations shall surely come...With some people it's heterosexual lust, with some people it's anger, with some people it's homosexual desires,"  Matt Moore


When we were meeting our new pastor, I stuck out my hand, introduced myself and my wife and then said, "I'm a bigmouth for God.   I make lots of noise but don't cause trouble."    He liked that.   It's true.  I do not gossip, don't want to hear it, want to know people as friends but do not like to see others in trouble and pray for them when they are.   I do not gripe about the music or the leaders.   In person I am an optimistic guy.

During my singing career,  the guy running the soundboard would always have to turn me down in the monitors and the mix because I just have a booming voice and when I sing I'm very loud.   God just gave me a voice, it is a family thing and it has been fun.    I am on hiatus but thinking about singing with the band in church again.  Got to get healthier first.   Having a big mouth and strong opinions is one side of me, but then again I am diplomatic and enjoy discussions with friends and acquaintances and have them without rancor.  Discussion and discourse is fun!

Although I used to do a gazillion things in church I am mainly concentrating on the Senior High Youth Group.  Instead of singing songs I use my voice to teach teenagers about various things,  especially those things they need to be armed with before heading off to college. I was reminded again why I do it when I saw one of my graduated students had this on the front page of his Facebook:

"Don't marry the person you can see yourself living with...but marry the person you CAN'T live without"  and posted it as a quote from me!   It is something I did say in a message and something I discussed with him in person as well.   I did a Google search today and saw that James Dobson said something very similar so it has been said many times.   No matter, it remains true and it remains wisdom.

Money sure doesn't make people happy, because if it did then rich actors and entertainers would quit killing themselves.   Having lots of things do not suffice.  Having lots of sex is great but it does not bring you inner peace.  Having adventures and playing sports is fun and you can replay the memories in your mind over and over...but eventually you get too beat up or too old to do what you once could do and you then have only the memories and they are not enough.    

Because I have been popular and have experienced (local, not national) fame and great local popularity, I see all the snares that come with it.   Fame is a pain in the neck.  Popularity is a double-edged sword.   If you are a big fish in a little pond, all the other fish know what you do and where you go.   It can get weird.   I have been up and down.   Been a hero and a villain.   Been a leader and a follower.   Have risked my life to save others and turned my head to ignore those in need.   If I went to God with my life and said, "Judge me on what I have done" I would be flung headlong into Hell.   But I depend upon the Sacrifice and Atonement and Grace available through my Savior Jesus Christ and only because of His life and actions and blood sacrifice can I be saved.  I claim Jesus as my Savior King, the Holy Spirit as my Constant Guide and the Father as my Awesome Creator.

Since I was a drug addict, a guy with loose morals concerning sex, a party animal and a companion to gang members and self-proclaimed witches and warlocks and now I am a devoted Christian who is very involved with his community and church and since I am a former devoted Darwinist who is now a devoted Creationist I can look at life from both sides and science from both sides and morality from both sides.   Thus, I blog on controversial subjects because I am not afraid to talk about religion or politics.

Homosexuality is now being forced upon normal society in our nation!

Concerning homosexuality and the campaign to invent "gay marriage" and sanitize the sin of homosexual acts?  I have blogged on why there is no such thing as "gay marriage" and explained why homosexuals are so intent upon taking a Godly sacrament from man and woman and breaking it bizarrely.   I also explained why perverse groups like NAMBLA put money and energy into the attempt to make "gay marriage" a law.  So responsible Christians should work to stop this evil from happening and overturn every law that allows this immoral and illogical practice.

Homosexuality is a sin according to both Old and New Testament.  Yet in the USA homosexuals can legally enter into civil unions.   Why is that not enough?  Some homosexuals claim they are "born" that way, although research disagrees.  No one has found a "gay gene" in human DNA.   Besides that, we are born with all sorts of urges - if there was no penalty to you, would you take your neighbor's new car or would you steal a new computer from the local electronics store?   What about those who want to have sex with children, or can only enjoy sex if they kill their partner before, during or after sex?  What about those who want to rape?   How about people who would just like to torture people or simply kill them?   Are those not urges?   Not everyone has the same urges (for instance I just cannot imagine wanting to torture and/or kill people.   I do not even like causing harm to most animals (mosquito, fly and gnat excluded) so some of these urges are only shared by some folks and not all.   But we all have urges to sin and we are supposed to control them and not do the sin.

So when a homosexual says they simply want to have sex with another person of the same sex because it is what their urge is, I could ask them if it would be okay to burn their house down since I have pyromania-cal urges?   I means, if morality is simply a matter of individual desires, then pretty soon there will be anarchy everywhere.   Laws and social mores based on Biblical principles made the USA the best nation in the world.   Taking away the foundations of our laws and morality will cause us to fall apart.   But let's let a homosexual who has become a Christian have a voice!  Yielding the floor to Matt Moore:

Testimony of Blogger Rescued From Gay Lifestyle Inspires Others

By Jeff Schapiro , Christian Post Reporter
March 21, 2012|4:23 pm

  • Matt Moore, formerly a practicing homosexual, is now a Christian who openly shares his testimony of how God rescued him from his partying lifestyle.
    (Photo: Matt Moore)
    Matt Moore, formerly a practicing homosexual, is now a Christian who openly shares his testimony of how God rescued him from his partying lifestyle.

Less than two years ago Matt Moore's life was completely transformed when he put his faith in Jesus Christ. Having indulged himself for years in heavy drinking and a homosexual lifestyle, his life changed drastically when he realized he needed to submit to God and His view of homosexuality according to the Bible. Today, Moore is using his testimony to reach out to others and show them how God is powerful enough to save anyone in the midst of their struggles with all types of sin.

Moore's recent blog post on CP Blogs titled, "My Story: Homosexuality, Drunkenness, Grace and Redemption," has been wildly popular and has led many people to express their appreciation for his honesty about something that is certainly difficult for him to discuss.

In the blog post he says that he wants to "turn the emotion 'switch' off" at times because it is hard to write from the heart about his painful past. But he told The Christian Post on Tuesday that he fights against doing so in order to maintain his "relatability."


"I don't think putting on a front of perfection helps anybody. It just deceives people. And God already knows me better than I do as I am and, in my opinion, in order to glorify Him as much as possible, I need to portray myself to the world as I am," Moore told CP.

Moore's story of redemption is profound. Though he was never molested, he says he was "inappropriately exposed" to pornography and sexuality at a young age.

"From my experience in talking now to people who are either confused about their sexuality or repenting of homosexuality, 99.9 percent of the ones that I've talked to were sexually violated, molested or exposed to pornography at the young age of four- to seven-years-old," he said.

Moore's parents divorced when he was young, and his mother went on to pursue a romantic relationship with another woman. He would go to church on Sundays with his father and stepmother, but the message never really took hold of him.

"I went to church a lot with my dad and my step mom from the time that I was six years old until about 16, and it was just something that we did, and that was it. We just went to church on Sunday. There were never any...discussions in my house about God or having a relationship with Him. So that's how I viewed church, as just something that we had to do as an obligation," he said.

Over time he began to develop feelings toward other boys, and while he was in high school tried to hide those feelings from his friends. Hiding his true feelings, he told CP, only made them stronger.

Immediately after seeking out his first homosexual encounter at the age of 16, Moore prayed to God that he would be made straight, but not because he wanted to be closer to God, but because he knew homosexuality was unacceptable in the culture he lived in.

"Everyone else was biblical-minded toward homosexuality because of the church and the Bible's teaching," he said. "They didn't act it out in the biblical way. They showed hatred and ridicule towards homosexuals and people who had homosexual feelings. So, for that reason, that did add to me wanting to keep it secret. If I grew up in a different part of the country – in the West or in the North – I may have come out about it a lot sooner, but being in the South it did add to it."

When he entered college, Moore became a heavy drinker and was active in the party scene, and he took both habits with him when he flunked-out of school.

"My drinking actually got worse whenever I came out and was accepted by everyone about...my homosexuality," said Moore.

For much of his life Moore also was obsessive over people. In high school he was obsessed with friends who he developed feelings for. In college and afterward it was for the men he "hooked-up" with, though they never reciprocated those feelings back to him.

"Now I see that God put that inside of me, that desire...to be just completely consumed with another person, that was for Him," said Moore. "That was for Jesus Christ. And only he loved me in a way that he could reciprocate those feelings toward me. He had those feelings toward me before I ever had those feelings toward him."

Eventually, though, Moore would learn to love God and began to seek Him. Moore's blog post says he finally sought God, and this time not merely as a solution to his homosexuality. He told CP that it is idolatry to simply seek out a "sexual conversion," and churches need to understand this point.

"I think that their call out to homosexuals is, 'Come to Jesus and he'll make you straight,' whereas the Bible doesn't promise that...The Bible doesn't promise that our temptations will end. Actually, it promises that temptations shall surely come...With some people it's heterosexual lust, with some people it's anger, with some people it's homosexual desires," said Moore.

He was criticized by his former friends when he revealed to them his newly discovered belief that homosexuality is a sin. He doesn't want to sound condemning, but emphasizes that those who believe they can be both gay and Christian "don't really believe in the Jesus Christ of the Bible," because the Bible is "black and white" on the issue of homosexuality. He added that he does know of some Christians, however, who practiced homosexuality for months before they were finally convicted of their sin and turned away from that lifestyle.

Moore says his homosexual desires are still present but have diminished as he has pursued God. He lives in Shreeveport, La. and is currently searching for a home church. He hopes that his search will be cut short, however, because he has applied for a 14-month internship at Mars Hill Church in Seattle that would begin in August if he is accepted.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

You might consider checking out Matt's previously referenced blog post:

My Story: Homosexuality, Drunkenness, Grace and Redemption.

His blog post begins - "My name is Matt Moore. I was born in Shreveport, Louisiana in June of 1989. I was born again in September of 2010. This is my story..."

Hey, Matt?   I was born in Connersville, Indiana in 1952 and born again in March of 1978.   Welcome to the family of God, brother!   Thanks for being so transparent because, by doing so, you are advancing the Kingdom of God and doing the work of a good minister for Christ!

8 comments:

Anonymous whatsit said...

Ah yes, Radar still determined to besmirch the good image of Christians with that of vile and brainless bigotry. Keep it up! You're playing right into your opponents' hands. There's a reason secularism is on the rise, and it's because of people like you.

"Some homosexuals claim they are "born" that way, although research disagrees. No one has found a "gay gene" in human DNA."

It is generally agreed to be a mixture of genetic influences and environmental factors largely beyond the individual's control. We discussed this before, and you somehow seemed to think that "childhood molestation or a very bad single parent homelife" were due to the individual's choice. When you were called on this, you couldn't defend it.

Can you defend it now?

And if you can't defend it, are you man enough to stop making this indefensible argument?

psychology DOT ucdavis DOT edu/rainbow/html/facts_molestation DOT html

"Besides that, we are born with all sorts of urges - if there was no penalty to you, would you take your neighbor's new car or would you steal a new computer from the local electronics store? What about those who want to have sex with children, or can only enjoy sex if they kill their partner before, during or after sex? What about those who want to rape? How about people who would just like to torture people or simply kill them? Are those not urges? [...]

So when a homosexual says they simply want to have sex with another person of the same sex because it is what their urge is, I could ask them if it would be okay to burn their house down since I have pyromania-cal urges?"

Surely all these arguments are easily swept aside by the distinction "between consenting adults". All of the arguments you trot out are completely on the other side of this distinction. Your comparison is not apt.

Got anything else?

radar said...

Real science and history and the testimony of people like Matt Moore say that I am right and whatsit is, as usual, using ad hominem attacks and fact-free assertions.

Even if homosexuality was in inborn urge it would be like pedophilia and necrophilia and theft and murder - a sinful temptation to overcome.

Anonymous whatsit said...

There is not a single ad hominem in my previous comment. If you think there is, I challenge you to point it out. Otherwise do the honorable thing and retract your accusation.

Fact-free assertions? I provided scientific research to back up my assertions. You, however, did not.

"Even if homosexuality was in inborn urge it would be like pedophilia and necrophilia and theft and murder - a sinful temptation to overcome."

Now there's a fact-free assertion. All you've got is "because the Bible says so", right?

Since you chose not to defend your previous position, do you at least now accept that homosexuality is largely due to factors outside of an individual's control (genetic, environment)?

And as usual, your constant equation of homosexuality (love between two consenting adults of the same gender) with "pedophilia and necrophilia and theft and murder" is beneath contempt. Though I consider it a consolation that the more you spout such horrendous nonsense while flying the "Christian" banner, the more you do damage to your own cause and feed the ongoing rise of secularism.

Keep it up.

radar said...

whatsit, you are calling me a vile bigot who is beneath contempt? You are also saying that of God. I am simply quoting the Book of Romans:

Romans 1:18-31 "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.

Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.

And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful; who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them."

I wlll base my morality on God's morality. You have no scientific proof of genetic homosexuality at all so there is nothing you presented to disprove scientifically, you just toss out your opinion? BTW if you use Kinsey you had better check him out. He would have deserved the tag "vile."

Go ahead and call me names, but since I am quoting God it means you are shaking your little fist at Him. My argument stands on the Bible and is therefore totally defensible and logical. You have no moral standard upon which to stand. The God of the Bible is not a bigot nor is He vile. You are a grasshopper standing on the train track shaking your fist at the oncoming train.

Anonymous said...

Nice imagery you've got there Radar. Too bad it doesn't hold water. We shake our fists not at some imaginary "sky daddy", we shake them at little old bigoted you, hiding behind ancient bigoted ideas that were invented by a small group of humans, thousands of years ago. You are standing on a house of cards you have erected yourself, blaring your hatred for all to see and hear. It's disgusting, really. You have no excuse for being so hateful towards adults that are in consensual loving relationships. And your example of some poor tortured soul that has had his life deemed "unatural" by close-minded idiots like you and your wife is nothing more than a heartbreaking story of christian mental and emotional abuse. You and your ignorant "pray the gay away" ilk are "healing" no one, only doing damage. Shame on you.

Educate yourself on the issue of homosexuality or shut up already, Radar. Your closeted gay friends and relatives would probably appreciate it.

psychology DOT ucdavis DOT edu/rainbow/html/facts_molestation DOT html

-Canucklehead.

Anonymous whatsit said...

"whatsit, you are calling me a vile bigot who is beneath contempt?"

I didn't realize that basic reading comprehension was going to be an issue in this conversation. No, I did not call you a vile bigot who is beneath contempt.

You really only have to go two paragraphs up from what you wrote to see what I actually did write.

"You are also saying that of God."

I'm not saying it of you or of God. I don't think God is beneath contempt for the simple and obvious reason that I don't think God exists.

"I am simply quoting the Book of Romans:
[...] not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them."

So where exactly in there does it equate homosexuality with pedophilia, pray tell?

"I wlll base my morality on God's morality."

Which is really only human morality, albeit a number of centuries or even millennia out of date.

"You have no scientific proof of genetic homosexuality at all so there is nothing you presented to disprove scientifically, you just toss out your opinion?"

No, I presented a review of scientific literature discussing the issue of linkage between homosexuality and pedophilia, outlining the evidence that there is no evidence for such linkage.

You on the other hand have presented your opinion on the subject loud and clear and have failed to produce any scientific evidence to support it.

"Go ahead and call me names, but since I am quoting God it means you are shaking your little fist at Him."

No, quoting a deity doesn't give you some kind of extra power to profess bigotry.

I'm not shaking my fist at "God" any more than you would shake your fist at Zeus when you simply ignore him because you think he doesn't exist.

"My argument stands on the Bible and is therefore totally defensible and logical."

Logic fail. Just because you say "the Bible says so" doesn't mean you've made a defensible and logical argument.

"You have no moral standard upon which to stand. The God of the Bible is not a bigot nor is He vile."

True, God would have to exist to be a vile bigot.

"You are a grasshopper standing on the train track shaking your fist at the oncoming train."

It's really not that hard to see that you've never cast off your own bullying personality. You've only found what you think is a bigger club to bash people with.

Enjoy - even though the knowledge that you're a poor ambassador for your faith in this forum might give you pause for thought.

radar said...

whatsit, I do not quote a deity, I quote The Deity.

You reject God, so therefore you like to bash me, too. Have fun. This is typical of those who hate God, they hate Christians as well.

I do not hate homosexuals and nowhere in here do I say that. I call the act a sin because God calls it sin. Would I give a platform to a homosexual like Matt if I hated them?

Matt is attempting to overcome his temptation to sin and is transparent about it and his story is quite profound. Becoming a Christian gives you the ability to overcome sin, it doesn't magically make the urge disappear.

Sad the people who think man invented God when in fact God invented man. You have it completely backwards and so your conclusions will be flawed.

Anonymous whatsit said...

"whatsit, I do not quote a deity, I quote The Deity."

... which is of course still a deity.

"You reject God, so therefore you like to bash me, too. Have fun. This is typical of those who hate God, they hate Christians as well."

I don't hate Christians at all, though I think the bigoted fringe of it that you represent gives the rest of them a bad name.

Since I think religious fundamentalists are a bad influence on society and irrational loudmouths like you contribute to reducing that influence by shining a spotlight on your silliness, you can actually consider me a bit of a fan, because you're (unwittingly, of course) doing something good for society.

And again, I don't hate God any more than you hate Zeus or Thor. Why would I have an emotional connection to something I don't think exists?

"I do not hate homosexuals and nowhere in here do I say that."

And I don't think I said that you said that - but the behavior you display towards homosexuals is hard to distinguish from hate, seeing as you incessantly try to link them to pedophilia and other crimes without any evidence. That's hardly compatible with Christian love for one's fellow man.

"I call the act a sin because God calls it sin. Would I give a platform to a homosexual like Matt if I hated them?"

Of course, since he supports your platform.

"Matt is attempting to overcome his temptation to sin and is transparent about it and his story is quite profound. Becoming a Christian gives you the ability to overcome sin, it doesn't magically make the urge disappear."

Evidently, judging by the number of Christians in prison.

"Sad the people who think man invented God when in fact God invented man."

You seem to be confusing "fact" and "conjecture" here.

"You have it completely backwards and so your conclusions will be flawed."

Ah, the irony.